[cwoodward]

I believe that the seats are polished steel. They would be I believe similar to the MTR seats in Hong Kong. They of course make sense for many reasons – health- upkeep- longevity- cleaning etc
For the past 25 years I have never heard a complaint re the hardness of the seats on HKs MTR or even considered it. I would have travelled thousands of times around the territory and the seats have never been a factor for me but to be fair the longest journey is about 45 minutes.

[AMcWhirter]

Yes as you know MarcusGB I have followed LCY’s fortunes since before it even opened.

I recall being driven around the area in the mid-1980s when LCY was still a dock (unused at that time) and surrounded by those high and intimidating dock wall.

Main drawback with LCY is winter weather when fog can roll in and close down the airport.

It happened to me when taking KLM in the days when it used F-50 turbo props and before the DLR opened.

Weather was sunny and clear when departing Canning Town by bus but as we approached LCY I saw a bank of fog approaching and by the time I had reached the check-in counters the airport had been closed to flights !

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MarcusGB

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1360446]I believe that the seats are polished steel.[/quote]

Not on the Liz Line (if that is the one to which you refer). There would be an outcry if this were the case !

Liz Line is very long. It can start as far West as Reading or LHR and continue through Central London as far East as Shenfield or Abbey Wood.

There are no toilets onboard (unlike HEX).

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cwoodward

[ASK1945]

[quote quote=1360470]There are no toilets onboard (unlike HEX).[/quote]

Nor, indeed, the Thameslink, in which there is always at least one toilet in the middle of the train, which is fully disabled friendly.

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cwoodward, AMcWhirter

[MartynSinclair]

Irrespective of seat quality and no toilets, I remain a fan of the Liz Line. The cost of car transfer from north London to Heathrow (especially T4) has nearly doubled in the last year or so and with 3 trips from Heathrow over the next 7 weeks, I intend using the tube and Liz line for the 3 return journeys. I have the added incentive of benefiting from free underground travel (after 9am weekdays and unrestricted over weekends). This should save me around £500 for the 3 trips.

From a timing perspective, it takes me around 1 hour 20 from tube station (or Thames Link station) to check in (using Liz Line) – before hand the Piccadilly Line was that little bit slower with far more stops, around 1 hour 50. Using the M25 (London orbital road) during the rush hour really is hit and miss, but generally it takes 40 minutes on a good run.

Of course if I have check in luggage, which I rarely do or am not travelling alone, I will revert to a car service.

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MarcusGB, cwoodward, ASK1945

[cwoodward]

Well the line has certainly proved the many sceptics wrong and is now rather a victim of its own success.

As I recall the line was designed to be able to accommodate longer trains (I believe 2 more carriages) – perhaps now is the time to add them to some trains at the busiest times.

[ASK1945]

Before they will contemplate increasing the length of the trains, TFL intend to introduce the full peak Elizabeth line timetable on Sunday, 21 May and will increase the frequency to up to 24 trains per hour in both directions, with 16 trains per hour running off-peak.

[MarcusGB]

Hi Alex.
Indeed i recall the KLM Fokker 50s, into LCY.
Landing was always a “rollercoaster ride”, as i often sat at the rear away from the props, and had several landings where i could see the Airport or runway through the window, as we approached diagonally! Twisting and bouncing around with height also! Often your body left the seat before thumping down!!!

Cityjet was always an atrocious trip, dirty inside, faded, and rusty tatty looking aircraft, inside, and out. I watched so many parts loosening on the wings, and creaking aged aircraft.
But you are right Alex, that fog there can close it down, but most Airlines are using new Embraers190 and E2 types, and enable to negotiate weather conditions far better.

(Also the ATR’s from STN when KLMUK had the whole of one terminal!).

Like Martyn, i travel from North London, a local cab to LCY, or when i take my car and park, is 35 mins when its quiet.
The North Circ round to the East is as unpredictable as the M25 round to LHR. But the delays and time to go through all at LHR and boarding often 50 mins before take off, it needs a 3.5 hrs start from home.

The LCY is just about 1.5 -2 hrs and aircraft especially KLM, run v much to time. Great that Landing and exiting is so quick, with luggage it varies but 15-30 mins either way. Plenty of Electronic gates. It is not really affected by strikes either.

I just avoid LHR at all costs, and really do not mind the LCY and quick changes at far better Airports in Europe, and the vast savings Half the price tickets as from London now. I Cannot believe the UK Government getting away with Charging £601 on yr Long Haul Biz ticket just to take off from our own home island!
Why does everyone just accept this?

But i certainly hope the EL does improve for all those who need it, such a poor follow on from LHR for visitor, but i would not choose it.

[AMcWhirter]

Update

Originally on February 3 I referred to the YouTube by BBC Tom Edwards which noted Liz Line’s delays and cancellations.

There are now more Liz Line trains since February but punctuality standards have fallen since the first three months of 2023.

Liz Line is no longer the UK’s most punctual according to ORR (Office of Rail and Road).

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-delays-cancellations-overground-most-punctual-railway-b1106952.html

[cwoodward]

A little more in-depth context from recent reports

I first took an interest in the ‘CrossRail line from the BBC documentaries and media reports and became more interested when it was announced that Hong Kong’s MTR corporation had been selected to run the line.

My thought was that the Evening Standards headline piece lacked detail and this prompted me to take a look at recent reliable reports and these revealed Network Rail failures were the prime (but no only) cause of the performance dip though it seems that performance is now getting back ‘on track’. I hope some find the below of interest.

*Director Howard Smith reports improvement in performance as spring turned to summer, and the week beginning 10 July saw a Public Performance Measure figure of 95.4% recorded – the best for some months.The is now turning an increasing operating profit

*London’s Elizabeth Line continues to reach usage milestones the latest was on Thursday 6 July, when 701,000 passengers travelled, breaking the 700,000 milestone in a single day for the first time.

*The ORR report said the big annual increase in the number of Elizabeth line trains – up 38.5 per cent on a year earlier – had also to be taken into account when considering punctuality.

*The key performance challenges have been well-documented, and Mr Smith reports progress on all fronts.

The ORR June report outlines key impacts on reliability were caused by Network Rail failures

-A significant number of points failures which are disrupting and take time to recover the service”.
-Class 345 train reliability – A needed software upgrade on the class 345 trains was rolled out ahead of the May 21 timetable change, “resolving some issues and eventually bringing additional functionality”.
-Following a signalling upgrade “Bugs” affecting “performance were apparent and will continue to impact reliability until resolved in future patch releases.

Where the high and increasing passenger demand come from ?
Based on passenger kilometre statistics the report shows -35% from previous TfL Rail services into and out of Liverpool Street and Paddington -19% from London Underground – 4% from the DLR – 13% from main line rail services.
Over 30% of demand is ‘new’ and the Elizabeth Line is attracting an estimated 140,000 additional journeys in London each weekday than would otherwise have been the case.

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Montysaurus, AndrewinHK

[AndrewinHK]

I used the Elizabeth Line recently, I thought it was fantastic, when you have relatively high frequency (every 2.5 mins during peak times), on-time statistics are somewhat irrelevant. I certainly had no idea what time train I would catch, I just arrived knowing one would be along shortly.

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Montysaurus, ASK1945, stevescoots

[SimonS1]

Ditto Andrew. Makes a big difference from the south – Thameslink to Farringdon and a 60 second interchange to Elizabeth line.

And a lot cheaper than the HEX rip off routine.

The new Southern rail link seems to back on the cards too.

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ASK1945

[EasternPedlar]

“Main drawback with LCY is winter weather when fog can roll in and close down the airport.”

@AMcWhirter there is a problem during summer also. If the temperature exceeds 33 degrees, they need to offload 6-8 passengers per degree above. This was the explanation given by the captain of a BA flight from LCY-FRA last year. It was very hot and quite a few people were offloaded and bussed to Gatwick.

[samuelwilliams]

I’m glad to hear you had a positive experience taking the Elizabeth Line! You make a good point that with such high frequencies, knowing the exact scheduled arrival times may not be as important. The convenience of short wait times certainly helps promote a stress-free travel experience.

While on-time performance statistics aren’t as directly relevant for riders in that scenario, they still provide useful information for transportation planners to monitor operational reliability and identify any bottlenecks or delays that could impact service quality if left unaddressed.

Thanks for sharing your positive experience of the Elizabeth Line.

[cwoodward]

While for can be a nuisance at London’s airports a couple of times a year it is not the major issue that it used to be.

It is now many years since LHR or other London airports were ‘closed’ due to fog as these days technology has greatly reduced the inconvenience that it causes.
It seems from reports that the last few ‘fog disruptions’ caused less than 20% of flights to be canceled-certainly a nuisance but no longer the issue that it once was.
The last few times that there was in 2022 troublesome fog LCY it caused the cancellation of only a small number of flights.

[Author]

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