[MartynSinclair]

Big Dog, this is a lesson for me as well, esepcially using the correct PC terms. Able bodied verses non disabled!!

Whether in economy or business the problems are in both cabins. Try getting the TV screens out in NCW – same problems for all people.

We will never live in a perfect world but with care, attention and discussion, the world could be made better by cross understanding each others needs and requirements. Rather than designing for different sets of people (apologies if that statement is not PC) why not create cross purpose design studios……….seems to make far more sense becasue I am sure for example a toilet in an airplane for example, could be designed to meet the needs of able bodied, disabled bodied and those with other special needs.

[BusinessTraveller]

Thank you all for your insightful, considered responses. They have already highlighted many aspects of disabled travel that we will look into further.

Please let us know if there are any organisations or companies you would like us to direct questions to (apart from London Underground, which has already been mentioned).

[Bath_VIP]

AndrewYoung1,

I have to disagree with your assertion as to how to refer to disabled people. I think if you get 10 disabled people in a room and ask for their preferences, you will get 10 different answers which is the way it should be. We are all individuals and trying to lump everyone into a single label is not helpful in my opinion.

Having said that, I wouldn’t mind seeing more use of the word “impairments” & “impaired”. To refer myself as visually & hearing impaired sounds PC but unlike many PC phrases, it is quite accurate. Using the word disabled can encourage people to equate that with incapacity which is not the same thing whereas impaired implies capability but restricted in some way. It’s a tough one for me. Do I describe myself partially deaf & blind and risk the incorrect perceptions that could arise or describe myself as hearing & visually impaired and sound like a anally retentive politically correct left winger?

[canucklad]

I have to laugh, there’s many things i’ve called my Dad…and none of them are listed above !

Oh..and i will post my Ryanair adventures with Andy the moan on my return…will try and figure away to get the front row though ..cheers for the heads up!

[MartynSinclair]

Bath_VIP – This whole PC issue appears to cloud the real issue of enhancing the travel experience for those people (who are not as mobile as Usain Bolt)!.

Whilst I appreciate the need to address people with courtesy and politeness, here we see an example of 2 people with close associations with the world of “disabled” who cant agree on the correct term to be used.

I know all people are different, but how on earth are we meant to discuss a subject where we cant even agree on how to describe part of the subject matter without fear of offending.

Is there one term that would be acceptable that would be PC friendly!?

[BigDog.]

…and talking of Mr. Bolt. Is it still the case that each aircraft type configuration has to prove it can exit all passengers within X minutes in an emergency situation?
This used to be proven using highly able bodied people bordering on the Mr. Bolt. ability. Hardly representative of the typical passenger profile loading.

Health and Safety must be pragmatic and be inclusive of a representative number of impaired passengers. The designers may then have a change in approach.

[NTarrant]

This is a slight diversion, but next door but one to us is a cat with three legs (missing one back leg). We always refered to it when discussing it, our and other cats as “disabled cat”. Until my wife, who works for the NHS said we should not be calling it “disabled cat” but “cat with restricted mobility”.

Whilst that may be PC term, restricted mobility I think not as it can certainly out run the new cat from next door but one the other side!

[canucklad]

Martyn, don’t know if Bath-VIp would agree but sometimes being too PC friendly can actually be annoying.

A gentleman (village character) that drinks in my local would describe himself as an amputee ( lost his lower leg to diabetes) at the start of his night.

By the end of the night he describes himself as something totally different ( as he is now impaired by the Highlands finest) and gets quite upset when people attempt to help him.

Another example is….when playing golf with my deaf mate, he had a bad habit of walking up the fairway in front of us, as he was a better driver than us.

Not being able to shout at him, to watch out –although somer people did ridiculously try until they were reminded that it was a futile exercise.
It took a few balls up his a***e ,but he soon realised we weren’t going to chase after him just because he couldn’t hear us!

[Bath_VIP]

There is no one term for disabled people, that is my point. Those who try to insist on one label for everyone are just as bad as those who are insensitive to disability. Unless someone is trying to be offensive to me, I don’t care how people describe me as I recognise that disabled all have different ways of describing themselves. Those who take offence over a particular choice of words are basically saying “i am insecure and have no sense of humour.”

My previous point about the word “impairment” vs “disability” was about the accuracy of the description rather than whether it is offensive. Sometimes, accuracy of language can help progress an issue and I do wonder if this is the case with disabilities.

[evelynthomas]

Getting back to the original post:
My late husband had lung problems and needed supplementary oxygen on aircraft.
There was ( and still is) totally discriminatory practice about this with some airlines being extremely helpful and others truly awful..
BA – easy peasy, they just plugged him into the air socket above seat, no charge.
SAA – and several others charge of c£150 per journey with oxygen cylinder supplied by them.
Easyjet , Ryanair, + many others:”no oxygen can be supplied” Therefore we could not travel with them..
Monarch charged £150 per journey plus the extra £9 or so charge for paying with credit card and I really objected to the extra £9 charge, even going so far as to write to chief exec once about this who couldnt care less..

Several times on flights where oxygen cylinder was supplied at our expense we had following experiences.
1 On entry to aircraft I ask “can you confirm you have the oxygen cylinder on board” and am told they will check later. I repeat my question at 5 minute intervals and try and get them to understand that if no oxy on board aircraft we are unable to fly and flight will therefore be delayed whilst we disembark or they obtain a cylinder.
2 Oxygen cylinders are not allowed to be connected during takeoff and landing (exept when they forget to collect it). So as soon as we are airborne I therefore ring bell and ask for oxy to be connected. Often response was they will do it “soon” – busy now loading drinks trolley etc. I explain that oxy is needed now and sometimes had to really push to get them to bring the cylinder. And then not all staff knew how to connect it.
There were many countries we could not fly to because airlines would not provide oxygen.

[MartynSinclair]

@ evelynthomas – 23/08/2012 18:49 GMT – was there ever an occasion where you found out that there was no oxygen loaded AFTER take off – and if so, what would the consequences be?

[BeckyBoop]

You should all watch this BBC feature on a disabled business traveler.

“The perils of flying with a wheelchair”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19365786

[BigDog.]

Even though it is the DM reporting it, refusing a Downs Syndrome a first class seat is wrong. Singled out because of his disability.

The family had apparently travelled together many times, the difference this time was that they were travelling first class.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2198317/American-Airlines-refused-family-class-seats-captain-claimed-Downs-syndrome-son-disruptive.html

Given the subsequent nationwide US TV coverage it could be a PR disaster for AA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/04/bede-vanderhorst-teen-down-syndrome-first-class_n_1856026.html

[MartynSinclair]

I would also like to hear more about the comments that United Airlines would not allow anyone else to sit near them on their rebooked flight.

Forget the fact that the DM reported this, the US news tape sadly gives this item more credibility.

A very very sad and disturbing news item.

[IanFromHKG]

I am fortunate enough not to have any permanent disability or impairment, but there have been times when due to injury or surgery I have had to use a wheelchair and/or crutches (same goes for my wife). Generally the experiences when travelling by plane weren’t too bad, but there were definitely things that could have been done better. For example, on returning to HK on one occasion I had wheelchair pickup from the plane. They wanted to take me through the special immigration lane they have for problem passengers (those with some sort of immigration issue) and wheelchair users – which I knew from past experience would be painfully slow. I said that since I could walk short distances I would like to go through the e-gates. Oh no, does not compute, so instead of walking ten feet and taking half a minute, I had to sit in the blasted chair for quarter of an hour. Annoying and pointless.

On another occasion I was flying HK to JFK – a very long flight. I had had surgery on my foot, going in from underneath, and was not permitted to put my foot on the floor. In those days CX had the slope seats, and I found I simply couldn’t get into any position where my leg was supported without my foot touching the floor. The crew eventually gave me a box to put under my calf, but it had to go in the aisle (not enough space in front of me). Since this involved very uncomfortably twisting my hip, I asked if I could be moved to an exit row so the box could be in front of me – again, oh no, safety regulations, as a disabled passenger I couldn’t sit in the exit row. Stupid, because it meant that the aisle was partially blocked for the entire flight, and by the end of the flight I was in far more pain than was necessary. And also meaningless because I could get up up and down and could move around (admittedly by hopping) without any difficulty at all, and don’t think I would have been appreciably slower in getting out of the plane in an emergency, But rules is rules…

On the whole, though, I didn’t find the experiences in the airport too difficult. I had far more problems out and about in the city, and one thing I would say is that although people do tend to give space to those in wheelchairs, they seem to have a blind spot for people on crutches. I cannot tell you how many times, during the three months I was on crutches after my foot surgery, people would walk so close that they would literally kick the crutches out from under me. I quickly got into the habit of walking on the building side of the pavement, so people would only attack me from one side – or so I thought. But I cannot even remember how many times people walking the other way would try to squeeze between me and the building rather than give way. They seriously expected me, on crutches and with only one working leg, to walk around them. After a while, I got quite adept at placing the crutch on their toes and leaning hard…

I was also astonished to discover how poor Hong Kong is in terms of disabled access. There are steps everywhere, very few ramps, heavy doors (these became a real bugbear, particularly the ones which snap shut viciously as you are walking through) and many of the steps are so wide that you can only use one handrail at a time (with two I could swing myself along trailing the crutches behind me, with one it is very hard). People also failed to appreciate that when trying to use stairs you are even more vulnerable, since it is difficult to balance and get a rhythm on crutches, and the slightest contact can really throw you off-balance. They also fail to understand that you need a bit of space around you to get on and off escalators because you have to match your step-and-swing to the speed of the escalators, which requires a bit of a pause at the start and finish. I could go on and on…

So for me, I would have to say that the main problem I encountered was people just being utterly thoughtless. And this wasn’t just passersby being so wrapped up in themselves that they didn’t see the crutches, a classic example would be the check-in staff at the Peninsula New York who gave me a room as far from the lifts as it was possible to get, and down a small flight of stairs. Unbelievable, it would have been pretty obvious that I should have been given a room near the lifts.

One last comment, though. In terms of making infrastructure easier, I was surprised to discover how much more difficult it is to use a wheelchair on carpets. The extra effort involved on thick carpets is considerable, and with the very short wiry carpets sometimes the wheels want to follow the nap of the fibres, making steering very difficult. I would love to see hotels and other facilities maintaining a smooth-floored corridor. Those little ridges you get between carpets and as doorsills can also be surprisingly difficult – doorsills especially since you usually don’t have any momentum to get the wheels over them

Sometimes, though, hotels do get it absolutely right and really cater to all their customers. Although not having any infirmity at the time, for the first few times we stayed at the Renaissance in Koh Samui, we were given rooms which were clearly designed for wheelchair users AND their carers. One room had ramps to overcome the step up into the room, extra wide access to the bathroom, which had a wet area instead of a separate shower compartment and an extra-large shower curtain, grabrails, etc etc. There was a connecting room which also had the ramp at the door but was otherwise normally equipped. The rooms were on the ground floor, but near the lifts. Brilliant.

[Author]

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