[canucklad]

Sadly I was thinking more about this late last night……

And Ian has brilliantly brought up and penned it more eloquently than I could ever do.
It’s worth re-iterating though……..”We’ve realised our sandwiches and our caterers’ and our own quality control people are so crap, and we’re so lazy, we’re going to abdicate all responsibility to another outsourcer who supplies a totally different company, who in turn will charge us accordingly!
Total horse and cart thinking!!

And, my second thought won’t impress Alex, I’m afraid.
The way forward to deliver “Hot” food on short haul with no wastage and minimal fuss and importantly offer the following amazing choices ……..

• Original Curry
• Chicken and Mushroom
• Beef and Tomato
• Chinese Chow Mein
• Sweet and Sour
• Bombay Bad Boy
• Piri-Piri Chicken
• Chilli Beef
• Sticky Rib
• Brazilian BBQ Steak
• Sausage Casserole
• Mac & Cheese
Happy days, to fly, to boil ; )

[JohnHarper]

[quote quote=765029]JohnHarper, we know that, as a passionate fan of BA, you are trying to be fair and generous to our national flag carrier but…..

“As I’ve previously demonstrated BA fares are way higher than easyJet’s.” – true on the dates you selected and, in some cases, between different airports. The same is true of your Norwegian comparison. I have checked fares on different dates where LCCs were significantly higher than BA – today, I was looking to fly Glasgow – London next week. BA’s Gatwick fares were cheaper than anything that Easyjet had to offer and something like £3 more than Ryanair’s equivalent to Stansted – all were high, btw.

So perhaps save yourself the trouble of further meaningless comparisons……[/quote]

Dear Tom,

Thank you for taking so much time to respond to my posts. I chose the dates completely at random for the comparisons I drew so they were in no way ‘fixed’. I’m sure you can find days when the real low fare airlines are charging more than the dysfunctional high fare national carrier that the UK is saddled with but on the days I chose I didn’t but keep in mind that I chose the cheapest option available on the day on both the carriers in the exercise.

For the sake of a what the BA apologists will consider a fairer comparison see below:

Chosen on two dates with a weekend stay in December – the cheapest ticket on the day in all cases:

LHR-FRA
BA: £116 LH: £108

LHR-MUC
BA: £114 LH: £97

LHR-CPH
BA: £118 SK: £104

LHR-ARN
BA: £118 SK: £92

LHR-OSL
BA: £102 SK: £95

LHR-VIE
BA: £161 OS: £115

LHR-IST
BA: £156 TK: £120 (Includes a Do&Co hot meal and checked bag, TK don’t sell HBO fares)

LHR-FCO
BA: £126 AZ: £88

So while the apologists may have thought they had an argument that comparison of BA, a high fares airline with easyJet and Norwegian was unfair, comparison with Lufthansa, Austrian, Scandinavian and Alitalia is almost like for like except that all except BA offer complimentary food and drink in their economy cabin within Europe.

So once again BA fail to compete on fares, it’s becoming a bit of a theme isn’t it? Claiming one thing and reducing service standards while still charging fares well in excess of others in all cases.

To fly to scam you.

[MrMichael]

@JohnHarper, how many of those flag carriers have a sustainable business model?

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=765473] @JohnHarper, how many of those flag carriers have a sustainable business model?

[/quote]

How many airlines have a sustainable business model? It’s a volatile sector, prone to savage swings in fortune and a hostage of ill fortune.

[icenspice]

I hope the G&Ts are not served in a can. I have witnessed this at M&S LHR T5 arrivals.

[JohnHarper]

[quote quote=765473] @JohnHarper, how many of those flag carriers have a sustainable business model? [/quote]

Perhaps you didn’t understand the point I made earlier when you posed a similar question?

I buy first and business class tickets and I expect an exemplary level of product and service in return. That includes a decent seat, a motivated crew, a good meal and a decent lounge.

Provided nothing illegal is happening I’m not interested in shareholder value, internal staff relations, their business model or anything similar. I don’t expect their problems if they have them to be thrust in my face or for either party to try to get me ‘on side.’

You might site LH & AF as having poor industrial relations, I’ve never had a member of their staff tell me that however once in the last twenty years I have had a single flight cancelled due to industrial action. (I think I wrote a review here at the time about the journey Mrs JH and I made home from Munich by train instead and that was great fun). Anything else I know I’ve seen in the media and I don’t choose to believe all I read there.

Compare that to BA where a number of staff still wear their grievances on their sleeve and many of those who don’t are now, like my friend, embarrassed by what they have to offer as a result of cut on cut. Remember the last round of UK industrial action where both sides were canvassing passengers for support and attempting to drag them into the dispute? I certainly do and that was when I cut any long haul flying from them for ever in the future and I’ve stuck with it and can’t see a day when I will reverse that.

So you can continue to defend BA all you like from your point of view of business model or shareholder value. I’m in the camp of the vast majority of passengers who have no interest whatever in the reasons for your defence and see them as irrelevant to the product delivered be that because I want excellence in first or as others do, the cheapest economy seat from A to B. Whether you want the first or the second, BA are a failing company demonstrating how flawed their business model is. I wonder how many corporates would stick with BA if they really had a choice?

[BrotherJim]

[quote quote=759357]A LOT will depend on just how far BOB at BA will go. Will all drinks still be free? Nothing has been said about charging for drinks. Or will booze be chargeable (like on QF domestic or domestic US airlines) [/quote]

Qantas doesn’t charged for booze (wine and beer) on most of their domestic flights these days. Availability is based on the time the flight departs. Flights to from Perth it is from midday 7 days a week, Canberra 4pm 7 days a week and flights between other capital cities from 4pm M-F. Why not 7 days? Who knows. It is also available on most Qantaslink flights over an hour or so in duration 7 days a week.

But this with BA, really have lost the plot, can see why down the back many may reconsider the value of BA over other no frills carriers intra-europe.

[Travellator]

No free booze, even free water is from the aircrafts potable tanks – yeugh !

[MrMichael]

@JohnHarper, you make a very fair point. I think you would agree I have never suggested anyone (other than FDOS perhaps!) should travel in BA if they do not like the product or prices BA are offering. The fact is as a business it is currently exceptionally successful, particularly when compared to other European flag carriers. I fly other airlines on BA routes if the price/product suits me better, I did 3 weeks ago and will again in December (long haul on BA’s most profitable route!). Neither do I complain that BA do not fly from my favourite airport (SOU) and they have not done so for years. BA do what they do, have reasons for doing it and I take advantage by holding shares…..sellable shares. Good luck to anyone that finds a better option, as I do sometimes. But BA is not in my view as bad as new readers of this forum might get the impression if they had never flown BA.

Must confess not surprised I don’t recall any BA advertising on this site…..I imagine their advertising agency would have a fit at the very idea. 🙂

JohnHarper, we rarely agree (like me and FDOS again), but thanks for keeping it polite.

PS. Had a lovely BLT sandwich at LHR today from M&S, ate it on my bus home.

[rferguson]

This is just my opinion, not just on BOB but also on the massively reduced meal service in Y on some long haul routes.

BA is obsessed with market research and ‘Net Promoter Scores’ (NPS) and ‘likelihood to travel again’. It wasn’t so long ago (about a year) that BA decided to ‘enhance’ the World Traveller offering. Small bottles of water replaced cuplets on the meal trays. Cheese and biscuits were added. Bar snacks reintroduced with the pre dinner drinks. Starters enhanced. Second hot meals replaced sandwiches on west coast US routes. This was on the back of a lot of market research that showed that customers rated BA’s longhaul economy catering below that of most competitors. But the ’emhancements’ were not a given.

The board had authorised the increased budget for catering on the condition that this translated in a higher ‘NPS’ and ‘very’ or ‘extremely’ likely to travel with BA again. The powers that be gave the enhancements six months after which the results would be collated. The upshot was that the NPS and very/extremely likely to travel again improvements did not justify the extra spend in their view.

But what happened next was not simply scaling the product back to what was. It was scaled back to what was and further. The second meal service on some longhaul flights were replaced with a ‘basket pass’ which is just the height of embarrassment. The removal of the tuck boxes replaced with ‘snacks for sale’ (which the loading of which is to be tripled due to high demand). The ratio of meat/veg main meals was changed from 65/35 to 50/50 (veg is obviously cheaper). And now, BOB on short haul.

I would imagine it is a lab test at seeing how far they can push the other way. What will the next NPS and very/extremely results be six months after these changes? I imagine someone will be doing the sums working out what the break even point will be.

As I said earlier BA has nothing to lose by giving BOB a try. If it doesn’t work, if it loses them customers they can change back to the system of old pretty much overnight. It isn’t as drastic and costly a move as reconfiguring aircraft for example.

For me as crew the important thing is that BA manages the expectations of customers and what they can expect on each route on each flight. Thankfully I don’t work the short haul routes so will not have to submit to BOB. Not that I imagine long haul is immune. Perhaps BA will decide it’s worth selling M&S sandwiches alongside the ‘basket pass’ second meal service.

[FDOS_UK]

As I said earlier BA has nothing to lose by giving BOB a try.

Except its reputation.

[rferguson]

Hmmm i’d say that had pretty much happened before BOB. No one seemed particularly surprised. Not even the Daily Mail.

[canucklad]

Uhhum, that pesky measurement that seems to be all the rage these days….Almost always used and implemented to quantify and justify an increase in customer service from an original and unsatisfactory low point.

And as someone who works for a company who also measures customer satisfaction using NPS and therefore has a reasonable understanding of the dynamics of the scale.

So sadly rferguson I can only say this. If your people truly believe that offering a slightly better meal would have improved their NPS figures, I’m afraid to say they clearly don’t have a clue about what customer satisfaction/expectations are ,particularly in relation to NPS.

I’d go further, if they actually thought it would go up,they’re as well planking their delusional arses next to the cheese. Because they are clearly crackers.

Then again,the cynical side of me,might think…..they set themselves up intending to fail. Thus ,justifying a continuation to find the tipping point.

Finally, I’d be surprised if BA actually scored in the plus column. I’d gamble a pound that BA’s NPS is probably -0 and definitely not above +10

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=766160]Hmmm i’d say that had pretty much happened before BOB. No one seemed particularly surprised. Not even the Daily Mail.

[/quote]

I really don’t think so.

Don’t let the BT lens distort reality, most people don’t travel regularly or have that much interest in airlines.

IMHO, they buy BA because the brand is residually strong and they are aware of the values from 15-20 years ago, which still persist.

As the general public encounter BoB, they ain’t gonna be impressed and there will be a gnashing of teeth.

Summer season 17 will be interesting.

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=764910]

FaroFlyer wrote:

Look on the bright side. In next year’s Business Travel awards BA will be eligible to enter tas a Low Cost Carrier

Surely BA could only enter in a new category of “low cost service at a high fare”.

As I’ve previously demonstrated BA fares are way higher than easyJet’s.

Now a couple of comparisons with Norwegian for travel later this month:
PMI BA £259 Norwegian £49
ARN BA £171 Norwegian £73
BCN BA £84 Norwegian £61
FCO BA £287 Norwegian £65

Once again a complete failure on the part of BA to offer low fares and demonstrating yet again how disingenuous a company they are. Trade on one image and deliver another. Even their Vueling offering which showed up on the BCN route was significantly higher than Norwegian. When I have time I’ll draw a few comparisons with Ryanair.

I suppose at least BA would win in the low cost service at a high fare category as I don’t suppose there would be any other airlines that qualify.

[/quote]

Fares are determined by complex algorithms reflecting supply and demand. Why would you sell for £100 if people are willing to pay £200?

With a bit of time to spare I’m sure we could all trawl the internet to find fares with BA higher and lower (I believe someone has done it above).

[Author]

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