[Chiantikid]

I can confirm this from an internal message via the union. Apparentely volentary redundancy wasn’t part of the initial BA changes to shorthaul but a number of crew have brought it up. ( we’ve been asked for our ideas regarding productivity). I think it’s a good idea as it’ll no doubt move on a number of older, more expensive heads.
It cannot be for compulsory redundancy as BA would have to then replace us with the cheaper mixed fleet which I’m lead to believe is illegal in the UK

[BigDog.]

@JordanD – 08/08/2014 09:08 GMT

Sorry Jordan, am not at liberty to share, however it was different from Chianti’s.

[BigDog.]

Monarch, mainly known as a holiday (Cosmos Holidays) and charter carrier intends to reposition itself as a low cost carrier following a strategy review. Currently privately owned by the Swiss-Italian Mantegazza family, a change of ownership also appears in the offing the FT reports.

Monarch is also said to be finalizing a deal with Boeing to buy 30 737s.

Another LOCO in the UK market, all be it not at LHR, will certainly add to the pressure on BA’s euro fleet viability.

[seanyjmuclhr]

Interesting article in September’s The Club magazine on “5 things to know about BA’s new short-haul cabin.”

While it does not talk explicitly about short-haul Club Europe, there is a lot of “based on customer feedback” and “what our customers appreciate” type diatribe. Of course, no distinct acknowledgement is made about the reduction in seat pitch up front on the newly refurbished planes.

Article to be found here:

http://theclub.ba.com/september-2014/en/five-things-to-know-about-ba%E2%80%99s-new-short-haul-cabin/

[MartynSinclair]

FRA – LON on BA, (24th August 2014) – the aircraft interior looked just like a loco – rows and rows of 3 x 3 ‘s.

A cream T was the ONLY distinction between Club and Economy…(do not count lounge access as a benefit for me as its accessible through gold card).

Surely business class 2 x 2 across, should be the minimum expectation for a serious European business class…

EDIT – skilful marketing presentation by BA in the latest Club Magazine

“Club Europe will have a 2:2 configuration, with the middle seat free. “

So its really 3:3 but the middle seat will be free…………..

[Bath_VIP]

Martyn,

I don’t understand the point you are making. Business class in Europe has always been 3:3 with middle seat free.

Actually, the way they passed over the reduction in seat pitch in CE was as follows “In redesigning the cabin and adding the seats that our business needs, we have made our Club Europe seat pitch the same as business-class seats on other established European carriers, such as Lufthansa, while keeping the middle empty, to maintain the privacy that we know our customers appreciate.”

So it’s all Lufthansa’s fault!

BTW, does anyone understand this comment in point 5?

“With the new seat pitch our aim was to retain a clear differentiation between Euro Traveller and Club World,” says BA design executive Francesca Zaccaria.

I don’t get why they are talking about CW in short haul?

[MartynSinclair]

“Business class in Europe has always been 3:3 with middle seat free”

thought business class on most legacy airlines is 2:2 (by design)… its only BA that keeps 3:3 and markets it as 2:2..

[Travellator]

Maybe it will become so unpopular it will give BA an excuse to dump it entirely !

[dutchyankee]

Hi Martyn,

No legacy carrier still has a proper business class cabin 2 by 2. All the majors use the same seats as in economy and just keep the middle seat free.

The seat pitch used to be different but this BA has just changed, and of course, when Club Europe was introduced, BA had the convertible seats that were 3 by 2 but wider than the economy seats and with more pitch. I think these are now only still on the 737 fleet and possibly still some narrowbody airbus family. But all the others, LH, KL, AF, SN, AZ,OS, LX, AY, et al have 3 by 3 with middle free.

Another difference though is that on regional aircraft, such as the Emb 195 or similar, on LH in business they keep the seat next to you free so in essence a 1 by 1 cabin, OS does this as well on their Dash 8 equipment and the 2 seat side of the Fokker equipment. LX does not do this on their 2 seat side RJ`s and BA does not do this at all on their London City Emb fleet.

Business in europe is becoming more and more economy with champagne. I should add, however, that TK does have some of their narrowbody airbus equipment fitted with a proper 2 by 2 business class seat, but these aircraft are on specific routes.

[dutchyankee]

Also loved to read the marketing spin the BA PR machine gave the new design in The Club newsletter. As stated already above, this I found very funny:

“With the new seat pitch our aim was to retain a clear differentiation between Euro Traveller and Club World,” Notwithstanding the error of CW versus CE, exactly what differentiation was he hoping to achieve by having the same seat pitch throughout the aircraft? Me thinks BA design executive Francesca Zaccaria has lost the plot!

[IanFromHKG]

I loved the statement in point 2 about customer testing, where they said that data about impact on body parts and scoring of seats on comfort was “run as an analysis set against out short-haul travellers”. I wonder just how many openly gay short-haul travellers they used, and whether they are sure this is truly representative of their demographic. Or maybe it just means that their proofreading is as sloppy as their market research! Maybe it’s the latter, which would explain why the picture of the tablet “IFE” above point 4 is clearly hung on the middle seat – which is supposed to be empty.

I was also particularly struck by the first picture, showing the blonde lady using her IFE. The aspect ratio seemed at first to be a little skewed – I assumed the picture was too narrow for its height (if you see what I mean) since she looks fairly short in the leg department but also seemed uncomfortably close to the seat in front. But then I looked at the angle of her arm, and thought – hang on, my initial impression was right, she IS really close to the seat in front. So I did a little measuring. On my screen the apparent seat pitch (measuring from front of armrest to front of armrest as a proxy) is 3.5 inches, which we know in real life corresponds to 30 inches. That means each inch on my screen is less than 8.6 inches in real life. Now before you read on, bear in mind that her head does not seem particularly deep (back to front).

The distance on my screen from her eyes to the seatback in front of her is 1.8 inches, meaning her face is just 15.4 inches from the seat in front. If the person in front reclines, that goes down to 12.4 inches – more or less the length of a ruler (and less for people with bigger heads!). And that, for a supposedly premium seat, is insane.

[dutchyankee]

Hi Ian,

Their proof reader must of been having an off day, so many typos for what they were hoping would be a stellar piece of PR to counter all the negative reactions BA have no doubt had from their regular customers.

I also loved this line:

`The innovative design maximises space and comfort, fitting in six extra seats, without compromising space or comfort.`

Really, space hasn`t been compromised, for whom? You have just reduced business class seat pitch so I think space has been compromised and customers annoyed for good measure.

I also thought the picture of the blonde lady looked bizarre. I trully hope this is due to camera angle or lens as she looks painfully close to the seat in front of her.

[BigDog.]

Speaking to insiders, it appears a good majority of “redemption” miles are within Europe. This is partly due to the severe limitations/restrictions on long haul redemption availability. As such a fair few short haul passengers are perceived as not generating revenue for that flight.

Given it is down to the bean counters as to how costs and revenues are allocated it would not be difficult to make a case that short haul is “compromised” and continue to push for lower costs or ?????

One wonders, as Ryanair follows easyJet by offering a business product, if short haul were left to the LCCs what would be the impact on Avios collectors and FF programs.

[Travellator]

Bottom line here is that no matter how many people protest, disagree put up arguments against – this is going down. The seats are ordered the aircraft are being converted – job done.

Just like the reduced hot food offerings in CE, the lack of hot food PM in Galleries lounges, paying for allocated seating – they all happened regardless of the hullaballoo !

And hot off the press you now get Pulled Pork sandwich to partner the Hamburgers in F !

BA does and will continue to forge forward changes regardless of how unpopular they are, they have a captive clientele of people flying ex UK, no one airline has the choice of destinations that they have and the connections to LHR and to a lesser extent LGW.

Lets just get used to cramped seating with less seat width as well – and has the CURTAIN gone – was missing on my last two CE flights ?

[DerekVH]

Travellator you are probably right and this is all going to happen despite the protests. I can appreciate some of BA’s problems and why these changes are necessary but would they please have the guts to admit this and stop trying to sell this as some major improvement!

[Author]

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