[Senator]

Actually.. I’ve done about 10 segments on LH in business across Europe in the past six weeks. It is true that these seats are designed cleverly so the actual space for the knees given that the pocket for magazines and such are lifted to the back of the neck area. Honestly, I don’t feel a big difference in the amount of leg room on Lufthansa compared to the current CE seat and I am 192cm tall.

I am actually more worried about the overall seat comfort as the current seat in itself feels more cushioned. However, I actually agree with the survey from above: it is the free seat I cherish the most.

Perhaps it is my experience as a Change Management consultant that alleviates my grief over this subject, or that most of my CE trips are very reasonably priced. I guess from my perspective something has to give in the current market, competitive offer, and pricing we are willing to pay. Of course I wish we had a true premium product in Europe, but there seem to be no market for it so this is what we are left with.

[dutchyankee]

@Senator, of course I think you are quite right in what you say, and I too have been flying LH/LX/OS more recently due to their better coverage of Russia. Where I see the biggest problem, and this is for all carriers, is if you take one of my upcoming trips, LED-LAS-LED in Business Class, you have a CE product on the way out, connecting to a fully flat bed across the atlantic, connecting to a US domestic First Class product. On the way over, maybe not so bad as your wide awake, rested, etc., but on the way back, when your last flight is in a tight seat with even tighter seat pitch on a 3+ hour journey, after having comfortable seating across the atlantic, you really wonder why they cant provide a more premium service on the connecting european sector to have some sort of consistency.

[TominScotland]

The dilemma facing full-service airlines in offering inflexible/ flexible premium cabins has been highlighted for me through flying 7 sectors on Malaysia Airlines’ 737s (2 international, 5 domestic). In all cases, the Business cabin consisted of a dedicated four rows of 2+2 seating. On none of the flights were more than 5 Business seats occupied while Economy was always between 80% and 100% full. I doubt the revenue for the Business seats in any way justified the potential loss of revenue in Economy.

An interesting aside on state subsidies for ailing airlines is that I understand that all government agencies in Malaysia (including the likes of public universities) have been instructed to reintroduce premium class ticket policies for middle level officers and above for both domestic and international flights, thus bolstering the airline’s income to the detriment of other state agencies. This only applies to MH and not to LCCs or foreign airlines.

[openfly]

Very interesting to read Tom Otleys review of the inaugural BA A320 flight with the new Club seating.

His comments concerning the total lack of room for doing anything when the pax in front reclines their seat, indicates that the even the press are not impressed with the most important requirement in Club….space…and it is only a 2 inch recline.

The Lgw A319s have almost the same seat. The best way to cope with the lack of space is to fold the centre seat table up and spread your legs to the middle. Or just simply book economy and take an emergency exit seat, with proper legroom.

[Raffles99]

What no-one has picked up yet is that the A319s will actually have even worse leg room.

Row 1 to 10 will have 30 inches (well, 1 to 9 as 10 is the exit row) but 11 to 25 will be just 29 inches.

A toilet has also been taken off the A319s.

The crux for most CE travellers now is whether to downgrade to ET and get 34 inches of legroom on the exit row. 11 cm extra is a lot. Remember you need status to book this though.

[MrMichael]

I tend to use BA for trips to Athens and Madrid ( a bad day is Olympic/Iberia). I try if it reasonably fits in with my itinary use the B767,s on the routes. Given these craft must be in late middle age by now, does anybody know if they are staying? If they are staying do BA intend changing the seating on those too?

[WillieWelsh]

Thanks for the review Tom, very comprehensive.

It sounds horribly like LH Group NEK. You can live with the leg room which is better than expected but you can’t open a newspaper particularly a broadsheet. That will incur the wrath of the FT and DT readers who usually populate C quite quickly I imagine.

BA had an opportunity here not to go with the herd and do something different. They have failed.

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

Despite all the benefits of flying Club Europe, I am at a loss to explain this move by BA. By all means, introduce the new seat on flights to Paris, Brussels etc. but not to Kiev or destinations with a similar flight time.

[passionateflyer]

@Raffles99 You don’t need status to book exit row seats in Euro Traveller.

[Raffles99]

I did a LH short haul J this week and would agree. Knee room was better than expected but you cant really move much. I would have struggled to help my kids with their seatbelts or pick something up off the floor they dropped.

I did has a disturbingly decent meal though which was a surprise, esp for a domestic. That said, the Lufty business brekky in short haul (cold meat) is still a mess!

Note that the LH A320s have 168 seats now, exactly the same as the BA ones will have after the refit.

Of course, a year after bringing in 168 seat planes, Lufty decided to throw in the towel on short haul and transferred all non-FRA and non-MUC routes to Germanwings. So much for the benefits of cramming in more people ….

[Raffles99]

Having looked at the photos of Tom’s flight, I can see where BA have messed up.

Whilst the magazines are now at head height, they have left in the ‘pouch’ and put the safety card in it. The pouch sags and droops forward so it touches your knees.

The Lufty seat has nothing in that area at all – no pouch, no safety card (it is with the magazine at head height). You effectively get at least another inch of knee room that way.

Seems a huge design flaw to me.

[dutchyankee]

Is there a schedule of the refit? I travel constantly to LED and it is mostly an A321 or A320.

[1nfrequent]

Read the BT review and I think this is a majorly stupid decision by BA. Legroom is important in premium products and without it, I don’t see the point in upgrading for Tier 3+ flights.

1F

[CXDiamond]

I think where BA may have gone badly wrong with copying LH so closely is that LH are at the centre of Europe and so most of their short haul flights are by definition rather shorter than those operated by BA e.g. FRA-FCO is about 90 minutes whereas LHR-FCO is about 165 minutes. LH also maintain a number of A320/321s with differentiated seating for longer routes as of course do BA.

I’m obviously not the only one who thinks BA have made a big mistake here all to put six more seats on an A320. Foolish but then that’s the current culture there.

[JohnHarper]

That is a very valid point about the length of sectors on LH v.s BA. Many of BA’s are far longer. LHR to ATH, IST or LCA with a 30 inch pitch and no room to open a newspaper anyone?

[Author]

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