[dkunnumm]

Having read about this issue a fair number of times (whether here, FT, Gulliver etc) and having travelled both alone and with an infant over the last six months (mostly in Club), I think I can have a balanced view.

I think the majority of people who complain about children in premium cabins are likely those who:
a) don’t have kids yet,
b) had kids too long ago and don’t remember,
c) have young kids now, but only travels premium on company’s dime and wouldn’t want to personally spend on infant’s premium ticket

Though I admit that there could be a small minority here who currently have young kids, can comfortably afford to take them in Club and yet of out of respect for the fellow premium passenger takes Oneself and Little One in Economy! Kudos to them!

Thoughts:
– A ban on kids in premium cabins is stupid (it comes across as dictatorial/despotic, and not an image a world class airline would seek to have)
– Though I think kids can be reserved to one section or lower deck etc; this way the more frequent business flyers (Prem/G/S) etc can select peaceful seats beforehand
– Seems unreasonable to force an infant (i.e. under 2y) to buy a seat when they need to be strapped to parent for TO/Landing (seat-purchase should remain voluntary) – safety issues
– Parents should definitely take responsibility, and do everything in their power to manage the situation (nothing worse than a kid let loose, if noisy.)

Finally, am looking to fly transatlantic rtn at some point later this year, with wife and 2yr old in Club! The ability to do this (i.e. fly premium with family once a while) is hugely valuable to me; if BA were to disallow this, they would be firmly off my fly-list.

[nigelbrinklow]

Hi everyone,

Just to be clear – I’m not suggesting banning children. 🙂
Additionally, I agree that there is nothing that, as a travelling passenger, I can do about a child is screaming next to me. I certainly can’t dictate who sits next to me. It’s just one of those things.

Most parents that I have seen in such a situation are exceptionally considerate to other passengers. However, on this occasion the parents were laughing when their children were screaming. They found it really funny. It was probably that, more than the screaming, that we found difficult to accept.

As I said, the crew were great. The service was excellent both ways and I was impressed with the product that was offered. There was nothing they could do.

By the way, the brandy in the milk trick is a tried and tested method. Lol. In fact, when I worked in a childrens hospital in the 1980’s it was still common place for the Pharmacy department to supply Drambuie to the childrens wards – which was used to help them get off to sleep. We’re talking about tiny amounts here. It did the trick though.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“I think the majority of people who complain about children in premium cabins are likely those who:
a) don’t have kids yet,
b) had kids too long ago and don’t remember,
c) have young kids now, but only travels premium on company’s dime and wouldn’t want to personally spend on infant’s premium ticket

d) need to sleep and cannot due to screaming kids

It is not a matter of tolerance, but practicality.

If you booked a premium ticket on the basis you need to rest and then cannot, you are not going to like it.

It’s nothing personal dkunnumm, but I would rather not be near you and your child if I need to sleep. Nor would I like to be near noisy drunks nor partying staff etc.

Having said that, it’s public transport…..

[RichHI1]

I know my suggestion will anger many but it is practicality not hatred that suggest it.

If yuo book to travel on EasyJet or Ryanair you will not be surprised if there are parties who are excited and laughing, perhaps singing and making some noise. It would unreasonable to complain you cannto work or sleep. If you book First Class to say Chicago, you would expect a quieter environment and the baility to work or sleep.
I have been on flights to LAX, NRT and PVG where there were young babies in first. They were carefully attended to by doting parents and cabin crew and there were no problems.
I think it is unreasonable to book your babies or children in first class if you know in advance you will not be able to control them.
My suggestion, which I know some will hate, is to abolish the discounting of CHild fares. I would say that all passengers should occuppy a seat for safety grounds. That baby bassinets should mount in a seat and that all passengers pay the same fare in First and Business. We are in an age of economic realities and occupying a seat stops the airline selling it to another passenger. So I would propose the abolition of child and baby fares in Premium Cabins.
Having done that I would make it a presumption that the extra revenue is used to provide a member of cabin crew who is qualified to attend to babies and young children to assit parents difficulty.
My other pet peeve is UM’s. Luckily long haul is now normally 1 2 1 but domestic and EUrope is still 2 and 2 or 2 2 2. I have had occasions when I have been seated next to a UM. Interesting different reaction between UA, AA and KL, BA. UA and AA advised me that I was seated next to a UM, did I mind, would I like to swap seats. Doesn’t bother me as I put my bratbisters on, turn on the laptop and watch the blu ray. KL and BA moved my seat without asking. When I complained they said that a single male passenger could not sit next to a UM. (I asked why they could nto move the UM as I prebooked the seat and got the same look you get when ask why bother with metres when everyone knows miles per hour.I got the presumption that the Birtish and the Europeans assume all their passengers are paedophiles.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Rich

Totally agree on UMs, polluter should pay.

The last UM I sat next to was an 11 year old boy returning to school in the UK, from Malta.

Air Malta don’t assume you’re a paedo, they would probably just throw an offender out of the door – at altitude 🙂

Cut a long story short, he was a very personable young man and we played rummy nealry all the way to London – good job it wasn;t for money, he skinned me.

[DontTurnRight]

Worst case of UMs was in business class on BA flight to HK some 25 years ago, Crew decided they could assist with cabin service and serve out the nuts. At least we got service with a smile!! Apart from this incident have barely noticed UMs who in the main are some the the best behaved travellers one can come across. Shame some of the adults, don’t live up to this.

[Henkel.Trocken]

Haven’t BA been challenged on their policy on UMs on the basis of sex discrimination? They always allowed them to sit next to a woman but not a man. I’m fairly certain a man has challenged this.

[RichHI1]

Yes I think they got sued… Still think it shows BA contempt for its customers.
In case anyone misinterprets, I am not asking for a perverts charter, I firmly beleive in very very long sentences for people who abuse children, whetehr they are schoolteachers, football coaches, in religious orders or just amateurs..

[Henkel.Trocken]

RichHI1: Thanks for the clarity. I agree with long sentences for anyone abusing a child however most people male or female to not abuse children and BA, by introducing this policy effectively pointed the finger at every male passenger. Had they ever put me in that position I would have demanded an offload and sued them.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

BA were successfully sued by a husband travelling with his wife, IIRC.

So he was not a male travelling alone.

But I do agree that their policy sucks.

[RHMAngel]

I think posters may want to cross reference this thread with discussion on babies in First & Business Class (or Upper for Virgin)….as its been debated endlessly with folks on various sides of the spectrum.

I for one am not in the vain of “its public transport” – get over it mentality.

That is as equally unsympathetic as the sympathy some want to gleen for those who have crying babies (from those who don’t) and can’t do anything about them (air-pressure in the ears, which I do understand). Public transport for most means “get off at your stop and move to another part of the bus/train/boat from passengers not to your liking”. This thread isn’t about low cost airlines flying 1 or 2 hours… most folks are talking a discomfort of 5 hours or more, in most cases 8-12 hours.

Business and First is either generally for those “doing business” and need to be in a reasonably fit state for business at one or both ends of their flight. Hence the premium price paid.

Or those paying out of their own pocket (or using miles points), don’t tell me you book these to jusst avoid the masses & discomfort of economy, you too pay for comfort, peace, and quiet and a little luxury.

Think the point was made with “Obnoxious children or adults” thread (which moved onto babies discussion) is there’s some reasoning, and protest to be made the individual concerned, with babies there’s none and flight crew can do or do nothing, even less if its a full flight (like move the parent & child elsewhere (back of cabin))

My face was a picture when one mother in business class at the start of a 13 hour flight attempted to move the infant to the spare seat next to me, while she was in the seat across the isle. Not On (after a full working day). A man kindly swapped so this lady could be seated with her baby in the two middle business class seats, together. That baby was not entitled to a full seat is my understanding of the rules.

Baby free ‘sections’ should be priority for business and first class. If if they must, then some section allowed for babies with parents who pay full fare. Thus anyone checking in, can then be warned a baby (or two) is likely to be in A section or B. And one can then make the choice accordingly.

When I fly economy for vacations, everyone knows the seat layout, that the ‘front where there’s a wall” is almost invaribly saved for baby cots. So if one isn’t sympathetic to families or babies (even on vacation) do not sit in the first 3-5 rows, knowing the probability is high of familes with babies being placed within ear-shot.

Too many (6 & counting) long haul business flights have been ruined, by crying babies. And my business isn’t sympathetic it paid for $$s business class, only for me to turn up weary eyed & frazzled.

If we’re not “fit for business” after a flight, then my bean-counters will say stop taking Premium plus seats.

I have been fortunate to be sat by the quietest of young children even in PE/Business, so don’t deny they have every right to fly if their parents paid full whack too.

On a lighter note, I like brandy or drugs in milk *lol* tone.

[LuganoPirate]

Groan….. Haven’t we covered this endlessly in obnoxious babies? Everyone’s points are correct, but the fact is, have money, will travel in C or F and if you have babes they will go with you! Sorry, but live with it and get over it!

[IanFromHKG]

Interesting that someone should bring up the UM/male neighbour issue.

I have confessed to having schizoid views on a couple of other issues in this forum. This is another one. On the one hand, I believe it is fundamentally wrong, and insulting, to assume that all men are paedophiles and also that it is wrong to move a male passenger who has prebooked a seat in order to accomodate a UM unless there is no feasible alternative. On the other hand, I am the father of two girls, the older of which has been travelling UM to and from her boarding school in England for four years (her choice, incidentally!) and the other of which will be starting in September (also her choice). Despite what I just said above, I took comfort from the fact that BA normally would not sit my older daughter, who is tall and hit puberty early so at the age of 12 could easily have been mistaken for a very curvy 16-year-old, next to a single male passenger (I say normally, because they got it wrong once and I was a bundle of nerves until she landed!). After some thought, I think the policy can be justified not so much on the basis of any supposed threat posed by the male passenger, but rather on the comfort level of the UM (and his/her parents). I think it is fair to say that by and large most young children travelling on their own will be more comfortable sitting next to a woman than a man.

Mind you, this is only a personal view and is also, of course, a gross generalisation. I remember a BA flight in CW where my wife and daughter were in seats D&E, and the woman allocated seat F (next to my 10-year-old daughter) threw a complete hissy fit at the idea of sitting next to a child. She misbehaved more in the first ten minutes than said daughter has in her entire (and extensive) flying history!

[craigwatson]

If airlines charged full fare for infants and made it mandatory to have a seat, they would lose money. take the example the cabin is full, with 2 infants, if those infants were charged 10% as is the case now and didnt get a seat, then the 2 seats could be sold to other travellers, and airline pockets the difference.

[Pierre]

Hi, Nigelbrinklow,

I will not comment on the presence of babies in premium cabins, but wld suggest to Parents travelling with babies to check whether a bottle teat/teat would help. Swallowing will ease the pressure in the ears.

Also, Parents would be inspired to ‘prepare’ the trip of their kids (food, clothes) to make the trip ‘acceptable’.

[Author]

Posts