[Vertrek]

Yes, but Binman, Indonesian tax is not included in the price as you pay it in the airport when you check in + catering and ground handling is cheap. But not only that, as Indonesia is set to be one of the biggest economy in the world and as the power is shifting to that region, it is good to create brand awareness especially, from what I know, Indonesians are one of the most generous people in the world and are willing to pay a lot for comfort!

Now BA is already behind the other 3 EU giants (AF, KL, LH) in term of Asian networks, and when I was in Jakarta and told my friends that I am flying to LHR via SIN on BA, they were like “what? what airline is that? Why not fly LH, KL or SQ which are superior to them?” (I regretted my decision and promised my self not to fly them again for long haul), so imagine if BA to enter indonesia late, no one will fly them to London except the British, not to mention KL is upping their game in J which I suspect is going to be superior to BA and GA is joining SkyTeam soon (a gain for KL and AF). The later they wait, the more they’ll lose in the long run, except if oneworld recruits one of the Indonesian carriers (which I am sure they will, sooner or later) and boost the OW members’ profile.

[NewBAexec]

I think the following routes should be operated by BA.

LHR to:-

Kuala Lumpur
Seoul
Guangzhou
Harare
Santiago
Detroit

LGW to:-

Havana
Colombo
Phuket
Ho Chi Minh shuttle to Hanoi
Caracas shuttle to Bogota
Seychelles shuttle to Mauritius

[RichHI1]

From a personal view I would like to see a RTW service back. BA has been absent from the Pacific (Hawaii, Tahiti, Fiji etc) for too long. With 787’s and anneconomy finally in growth it might happen but LH will be there first and AF are of course already present in Tahiti. I find it indicative the Pacific is the bit that the magazine maps lose…

[sparkyflier]

Vertrek you raise some interesting points. I am with you on Indonesia, it is a huge market and BA must be there. As you say, KLM is raising their game big time with their new forthcoming product ( I have felt for a while they are one of BAs major competitors in a number of markets), and Garuda, also raising its game, is also joining Skyteam.

Jakarta non stop is interesting, and my suggestion was to go via KL, but I am not sure that BA has aircraft that can do the 7200 miles non stop. BA has 777-200, but could that do it? 77W probably cna but am not sure BA would want to use that on a new route on a very long flight (rotations etc).

My thought was KL 5-7 times a week, with 4 to Jakata and 3 to DPS.

New BA EXEC, Caracas has been overlooked in this, including by me, but this is very doable with a 767 and then on to Bogota as you say.This was done before, but then dropped, but since then the Columbia economy has picked up big time, and there seem to be many Colombians living in London now.

Not sure about Seychelles/Mauritius shuttle though, was done before, but I think Mauritius does OK without any stop.

Harare could do very well – years ago BA used regular 747s there!

[VintageKrug]

I think gone are the days when if it’s a “huge market” BA must be there, or the UK has no connection with that country.

BA has a limited number of longhaul aircraft (about 110-120 in operation at any one time) and an even more limited slot capacity at Heathrow. It also needs to operate commercially, and ensure higher than average margin business for its premium cabins (BA has a higher level of premium seats per aircraft than most airlines).

Just because BA doesn’t fly there, doesn’t mean the only way of opening up trade/tourism is for BA to do so. Many of the developing nations are now completely capable of running reliable airline services, if they believe it would be commercially viable.

[sparkyflier]

Are you saying that a country with 238,000,000, with a capital city of 10 000 000, and annual growth of 6%+, would not be of interest to BA, and not be able to supply at least 200 passengers 3 or 4 times a week? I am sure British businesses would welcome an easier way of getting there to find customers for their products, and I am sure out that population there are are fair few who would lime a direct link to come here and do business or go on holiday.

As you have said yourself, a fair amount of capacity lift is coming, with new 77ws, 747s from the desert, 767s being transfarred from short haul, and that is before 787s and A380s arrive. About the slots, well that is what this thread is all about, what BA should be doing with their many new slots.

You are right about the only way is not just on BA, but direct access does help, and the UK has been hindered IMHO by not having access to the key growth markets.

[RichHI1]

The recent UK government activities to focus British Business on global markets should be supported by enhanced travel links whether BA, VS or any other carrier. For too long the effects of the disastrous 1992 campaign instructing British Business to focus on the EU to the exclusion of Elsewhere have hampered UK Growth, in my view.
Airline flag carriers such as BA and VS are commercial enterprises but their position does impose responsibilities to help British Business.
If British Business does focus on growth areas and they can get there, we may see an end to the current lacklustre economic performance.

[JohnnyFox]

Matching the fleet to the new routes is obviously BA’s biggest headache but with the influx of 320s and 321s from BD it might decide to take almost all its 767s off European routes and refit them for long haul (possibly adding centre tanks for increased range). In which case, expect flights to Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, Jakarta, Colombo, Manila.

It’s odd that BA is so well-covered in India, but ignores so much of the rest of Asia.

Developing Latin America is dependent on NOT taking business from IB – I wondered if BA might encourage IB to operate the 2 A330s it’s getting from BD on routes directly from LHR to Latin America, particularly LAN hubs like Lima and Santiago – at least until the 787s are on stream.

Don’t flame me if I’ve got the range wrong for these aircraft. I’m not a geek. 🙂

[sparkyflier]

BA does have good coverage of India, but in Europe Lufthansa is the market leader, serving the most routes. Kolkata was dropped a while back, but that could come back as the local economy I understand (from a BT article a few months ago!) has picked up. BA does have some ghastly schedules to some of these cities though. I wonder if Amritsar has done well for BMI in its short time going.

On the A330s, I believe these 2 will be leaving the fleet for certain. Unfortunate, as I think IB could do with these for some of thier thinner routes where A340-300/600 are too much.

[rferguson]

@sparkyflyer that is correct regarding the A330’s.

I believe there are two A330’s. WWBM and WWBD.

WWBM is headed to Malta on 19 May for maitenence then onto MAN to be repainted in all white. I’m guessing perhaps this aircraft is in a star alliance livery as the other A330 is not being repainted?

Both aircraft are then due to be returned to the lessor end of OCT.

[kershcliff]

Durban – the only non African/Indian Ocean international flights in are Emirates from Dubai – which adds 4 hours flying time from London.

[Henkel.Trocken]

China is the place to go. Any further expansion in to the US is a waste of slots, there are more than sufficient trans-atlantic services now and a OW partner who is capable of picking up transfer traffic on the other side.

[sparkyflier]

I think the main routes in USA that can be justified are Detroit, since thee local economy has picked up somewhat post bailout, but maybe start this as I said initially using AA 757s, then maybe 767. At the moment that route is a Delta 764 monopoly (which is a good product I think).

Fort Lauderdale I am sure will do well, not least for the cruise ship traffic.

But where in China? Some have said Guangzhou, but China Southern is starting that shortly, and I am sure all the locals will be happy with that. Having said that, their product is not that great I have been told, but maybe BT will do a trip report on that soon?

Maybe BA flat beads in J will appeal. Lufthansa did drop out, and have started other routes, but I reckon other cities like Chengdu might be a good next China route after Beijing, Shanghai & HK..

[VintageKrug]

Detroit is a dead duck, and the bailout is nowhere near building a sustainable recovery there. Maybe it might work on AA757s, but there are many other more lucrative destinations to which frequency could be increased without the costs of setting up a new station and using up valuable slots.

Fort Lauderdale seems to be a good idea; longhaul 767 would do nicely to open up the route.

I think the China question is about picking somewhere with good hub connectivity to oneworld partners; trouble is they are few and far between in China, except of course Hong Kong.

[BeckyBoop]

The Philippines would be a choice worth considering. Some of our associates have invested some of there tech operations and farms to Manila.

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