[silentquays]

I belive that in this case the empty seat(s) in First was a result of a no-show and First Class ticket holders do have more lenience in how late they can present themselves at the gate, so it is possible that First was in theory full when i checked-in. In this instance a crazy irony played out in that the person I flew to meet was also a passenger on the same flight – in First Class. Whatever the reason for the downgrade I was angry, and very tired upon arrival.

[Cwyfan]

My oddest upgrade event was almost 20 years ago when I took my parents to New England with BA through BOS. On the return flight, where we were flying economy, I suggested that as I was 6ft 4ins, I check in separately to maximise my chances of getting an exit row seat with more leg room.

Anyway, the check in clerk said she could do better than that and gave me a business class seat. I was mortified as what would my parents now think as to why I had asked to check in separately. Nevertheless I accepted graciously.

I remained mute and just got on board and took my seat, dreading the moment when my mother found me there, as I was sure she would seek me out sometime in the flight.

Imagine my surprise when, moments later, my parents passed me along the other aisle, shouting Yoohoo, we have been upgraded to First!

Thank you BA for saving my day in every way.

[MartynSinclair]

What is the position if you are downgraded from business to economy on a long haul? Are you able to ask for the next flight where business is available and would the airline legally have to change your ticket at no cost?

Would hotel costs also be covered?

Or can the airline downgrade you and demand you take the flight?

[LuganoPirate]

I was thinking the same Martyn. Would be interesting to know.

[FDOS_UK]

Flyerboy1 – 14/01/2016 20:47 GMT

Before you adopt such a critical voice, it might be worth remembering that the cabin crew who were ‘put through crap’ are employees of the business that put the passenger ‘through crap’ by upgrading and downgrading him.

Reciprocity.

[SwissExPat]

Apologies (particularly to KMCottrell for not getting back sooner)

Lots of contributions to this issue which happened to me and I posted up so that the forum members can get exposure to a discussion which may not happened to others and may happen again. In this instance it happened to me. As it happens I had both a print out and electronic version of the new (upgraded) boarding pass.

To address some contributions, I am happy to buy a ticket for a specific service level and have this delivered. That certainty has a value.

I am certainly not happy when a service provider decides to sell (or think they will have to sell) the seat/service that I have ALREADY purchased (because they want to maximize yields) and then ‘jerk me around’ by offering me a ‘better’ or an alternative product that might be more favourable and then go back on their ‘offer’ once the original reason for the ‘offer’ is no longer present. If airlines decide to engage in this process, they do it to make a gain but occasionally they have the odd loss. (Indeed regulators have had to enact statutory compensation for this because the Airlines wouldn’t do it themselves if left to their own devices). Managing the ‘loss’ situation is important and in this case, the BA crew did that.

IMHO (and it seems I am not alone), granting an upgrade is a 1-way street. If the carrier wants to renege after the granting, then they should expect a very unhappy customer.

I did not ask the airline to engage in aggressive yield maximization by engaging in ‘overbooking’ seats on flights. Any consequences of occasional failures in this process should be acceptable to the airline given the overall win they make by selling some seats twice over.

I am always amazed at some contributors to this forum who seem to be of the view that Airlines are in someway above the normal standards of customer service and can largely do what they want with impunity. Offering a better product (in order to increase revenues) and then withdrawing it later is, in my view unacceptable.

Today I have just spent another Euro1.6k on BA ticket (which will push me over the 1500 tier points for BAEC Gold.) Why? Because on the whole they are generally reasonable to deal with even though the last time they went back on an invol/upgrade but finally sorted it. However, I have learned something and hopefully so have other forum members from the experience.

[FDOS_UK]

silentquays – 14/01/2016 14:28 GMT

When did this happen? This was a open and shut EC261 downgrade and the airline should have paid you 75% of the ticket cost (normally understood as pro rated per sector) within 7 days.

If I were you, I would make a claim and pursue the airline using MCOL, if necessary. (Assuming that you are within the time limit for claims.)

The relevant parts of the regulation are

Article 3

Scope

1. This Regulation shall apply:

(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.

2. Paragraph 1 shall apply on the condition that passengers:

(a) have a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned and, except in the case of cancellation referred to in Article 5, present themselves for check-in,

– as stipulated and at the time indicated in advance and in writing (including by electronic means) by the air carrier, the tour operator or an authorised travel agent,

or, if no time is indicated,

– not later than 45 minutes before the published departure time

Article 10

Upgrading and downgrading

1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.

2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse

(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.

Article 7

Right to compensation

3. The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.

[FDOS_UK]

“Offering a better product (in order to increase revenues) and then withdrawing it later is, in my view unacceptable.”

I support this assertion.

[rferguson]

@ swissexpat/FDOS. Poor customer service? I’d support that assetion. Unacceptable? That’s a matter of opinion.

Poor customer service or unacceptable – this should have ABSOLUTELY been taken up with the ground staff. You should have asked for a supervisor and put your point across that you found this unacceptable. Failing that you should have asked for the Duty Manager.

I’m sorry but what is ALSO unacceptable is swapping a boarding card between the gate node and the aircraft door. And then even worse creating a scene and threatening with letters once the aircraft is about to push back. Whatever someones feelings on what is good/bad/unacceptable in terms of BA’s customer service that kind of behaviour from a passenger is also unacceptable.

Edited to add – swissexpat no hard feelings! I guess i’m just looking from both sides of the coin. Wish it would have panned out that you had it resolved before you got on though.

[SwissExPat]

@ RFerguson…. no hard feelings either on my side.. I should have said in my post that one reason I post up here (especially on BA matters) is that knowledgeable persons in the business such as yourself do contribute and give a perspective which I value.

As for you suggesting that it should have ‘ABSOLUTELY taken up with ground staff” I did mention in my post that this had happened to me before and I did do what you suggested.

Result was that I was threatened (and bullied, in the correct use of the word) by the ground staff saying that I could either accept the downgrade (my exit row seat had been reallocated to a higher FF PAX) or be “offloaded with no re-booking”. Asking for Duty managers etc would have been a forlorn hope. I can see that you would suggest this course of action but my experience is that this is completely ineffectual.

I am afraid I completely disagree with you when it comes to a PAX saying to Crew that they are disappointed with a situation and will be writing a letter of Complaint and you suggesting that this is unacceptable?! What the…… ?

[rferguson]

In all honesty swissexpat I reckon if you were just honest you could have had it resolved to your satisfaction. And if not, if worst come to worst you would have had to sit in the very same seat you had originally selected.

Just to clarify one point – i’m absolutely not suggesting you shouldn’t have the right to threaten to write letters etc etc etc. BUT you did this with the crew thinking you had no idea you’d been upgraded then downgraded. You switched your boarding card on the way down the jetty and then played dumb. Absolutely – get to the aircraft door with your ACTUAL boarding card, ask to speak to the CSD/Purser, show them your alternative boarding card, tell them you are really upset because of the turn of events and that you plan on writing into the company as you find it unacceptable/never flying BA again etc etc.

You were just fortunate that the aircraft door was closed at this point. Because each ‘touch point’ is electronically logged. So if the crew did take up your issue with the TRM they would have known you were issued for a WTP boarding card at check in. They would have known you used your WTP boarding card to pass the top of the jetty. And then (obviously) they would know that you used a different boarding pass at the door and were playing dumb. So you would have looked quite silly.

For all that we can complain about BA and it’s customer service one advantage that we do have is that on the shop floor so to speak we have a degree of autonomy. We can upgrade passengers without the need for ‘approval or such if we deem it a service recovery issue. Put a decent case to us and it will be considered. We aren’t like SQ or EK where rules are cast in stone. I reckon you would have had a good chance with the Purser swissexpat.

In the end you got what you wanted but it could have gone awfully wrong too.

[SwissExPat]

It is funny that in all this debate, there is little or no discussion about the fact that it was the AIRLINE who caused all this in the 1st place?

What say you RFerguson?

[rferguson]

I say it was douche to do such a thing 😉

They should have left you in your damned new seat.

Which would have been exactly the argument i’d put to the Purser and she would have more than likely agreed with you.

[FDOS_UK]

rferguson – 15/01/2016 15:22 GMT

Yes, I believe that this episode was unacceptable customer service.

A company that did not have a dominant position in a market would not be able to get away with treating its customers in such a high handed way.

I am really pleased I no longer have to use BA.

[Cheeryguy]

The airline may have cocked up big time, however they were upfront about their mistake. They didn’t attempt fraud. Switching your boarding card on the jetway, knowing full well the circumstances is a tantamout to that. You got caught and then threw a wobbly.
You lucked out that the door had been closed.
Just accept that you got what you wanted by deceptive means.
Put this situation into another non airline environment, maybe your own business…….then see how you would feel about it.

[Author]

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