[MartynSinclair]

Thanks for the info RF. There were downgrades on my last HKG-LHR flight early December 2015, when one of the 2 evening flights was cancelled…

There was a lot of unhappy passengers that night .. although some, not all, were re routed on other airlines.

I did offer to be a voluntary offload if my seat was wanted (I was on the cancelled flight). I was told by the gate staff that night I should consider myself to be lucky as I was in Club…… I bit my bottom lip and walked away……….

[CathayLoyalist2]

On the matter of those condoning SwissExpat’s behaviour to achieve his end result, I wonder if they are the same people who felt that someone with a ‘Y’ ticket sneaking into the Business Cabin to gain something they hadn’t paid for i.e. theft was also ok . Nothing to be proud of in my opinion.

[silentquays]

In an earlier post in this conversation I referred to a Business Class to Economy downgrade at the gate for a BA LHR-Mumbai flight. I was offered the option to fly the next day in Business and not forced to fly in Economy on the ticketed date, but it was not possible to delay the trip. As rferguson points out, when one ticks the box accepting terms and conditions during the booking procedure, obligatory, one accepts the possibility that force majeure may lead to equipment change, over-booking, etc, and the right is reserved to disappoint accordingly. Some airlines are more PR- or customer service-minded than others, and this is reflected in how they handle such incidents. A genuine upgrade granted without trickery should not be resented as we all would wish it happened to us. Otherwise if unsatisfied, travellers can vote with their feet and wallets, and share our negative experiences in forums such as this which the airlines do follow.

[FDOS_UK]

Just because a company has certain terms and conditions, it does not necessarily follow that they are enforceable.

It is okay for posters to say that the OP should have resolved matters before the aircraft, but who is the dominant party in the contract? The airline, obviously and it took no steps to find a solution when the OP queried what had happened.

As to ‘ethical’ behaviour, well I don’t necessarily think it is always the best way to go with airlines, who are capable of reprehensible behaviour towards their passengers – e.g. why does EC261 exist? (and for the avoidance of doubt, this is a general comment, not aimed at any specific airline.)

Self upgrading into a higher cabin is obviously seeking to gain services which were not offered. It is clearly wrong.

In this case, I can’t blame the OP for playing them at their own game.

Bottom line – don’t upgrade someone unless you mean it.

If the airline doesn’t like it, they can always decline to carry the OP.

[rferguson]

FDOS. We know you do not like BA and choose not to fly them anymore and I’m sure you have you reasons.

But God forbid let’s say Emirates makes a mistake like that. Just for a moment. I’m sure they wouldn’t but let’s just pretend. What course of action would you take? Would you walk away from that check in desk with your new boarding pass and then present your old one at the door? Or would you refuse to walk away from that check in desk until you discussed the situation with someone that has some clout?

[LuganoPirate]

Discussing this with Mrs. LP and junior pirates at dinner tonight, they were unanimous in their support of SwissExPat and all agreed having been given an u/g it should not then be taken away.

[rferguson]

And I agree with you LP. As do most on here.

But I’ll ask you the same question I just asked FDOS. What would your course of action been if it was you in that situation?

[FDOS_UK]

RFerguson

Emirates do not operate like that, upgrades are given at the gate, so I am not answering a hypothetical question that would not happen. You can’t prove the null option.

I can only point you to the example I gave earlier in the thread, when I stood up to Austrian Airlines, gave them, merry hell and they re-routed me on Emirates: Not the polite British stereotypical behavour, I’ll grant you, but I flew on a flat bed that day, whcih is what mattered to me.

I choose not to fly with BA because (a) the company does not fly direct to my regular destinations from my local airport, (b) the product is outdated, (c) service onboard is inconsistent and occasionally unpleasant (d) prices are often far higher than I can get elsewhere, (e) the service from the contact centres is lousy – too long waiting on the phone and sometimes ill informed agents and (f) the website is buggy, sometimes gives misleading info (e.g. offers upgrades at a price that is not available. Apart from that, it’s not a bad airline.

[EU_Flyer]

“Self upgrading into a higher cabin is obviously seeking to gain services which were not offered. It is clearly wrong.

In this case, I can’t blame the OP for playing them at their own game.

Bottom line – don’t upgrade someone unless you mean it”.

I totally agree – don’t upgrade someone unless you mean it. BA stuffed up and then didn’t handle it proactively at check in or the gate to recover the error. They could have easily kept the OP in CW given there were seats.

But I can’t agree with the “playing them at their own game” comment. If it’s suggested that misleading someone to obtain a desired outcome is acceptable or preferable to seeking a resolution by politely explaining your case, then I think we’ve all have one too many G+Ts in the lounge.

BA made a mistake. They were not legally obliged to keep the OP in CW (given he didn’t pay for it) but – from a service perspective – I agree they should have kept him there.

Knowing he’d been issued a BP for Y+, the OP carried on as if he had purchased – and therefore a right to – that CW seat and misled the crew to that effect. FDOS_UK – that’s just wrong and as bad as upgrading one’s self on board to product you haven’t paid for.

“Emirates do not operate like that, upgrades are given at the gate, so I am not answering a hypothetical question that would not happen. You can’t prove the null option”.

I’m not as familiar with airline internal processes as others are here, but in my personal experience of flying many airlines – including Emirates – I have been operationally upgraded at online check in / airport check in / at the gate and even on board.

Free upgrades are nice. Very nice. But I suspect many of us have become so accustomed to receiving them that we’ve become blaze about it. For me, they are a nice bonus. But nothing I would ever demand or expect.

[SimonS1]

LP – I think there are two separate issues.

Should the airline have withdrawn the u/g – of course not. Poor management, but then this is BA we are talking about. If the thrust of the OP was “I was upgraded and then downgraded” I think we would all be sympathetic.

However should the OP have been deceitful, accepted the new Y+ boarding pass and then pressured the crew in that way – no. I wouldn’t be happy if it was a member of my family on duty and getting that type of behaviour. The time to sort it was in the terminal.

[FDOS_UK]

Alex_Fly – 17/01/2016 06:20 GMT

Sorry, but I am a great believer in the principle of reciprocity, to the extent that I will point out to shop assistants when they have given me too much change.

What the OP did was definitely dodgy, but then again the actions of the airline were definitely dodgy.

[canucklad]

A technical question from me….

How was his BP accepted at the gate. Surely the software should have updated itself to recognize the deceit that started to happen at the gate.

To mis quote Little Britain…” The computer says yes”

I suspect if 10C hadn’t been occupied , the crew wouldn’t have tried to enforce the downgrading back. Since most of us,including me ,wouldn’t have a rant at the crew. Original upgrade honoured.

So,my next question is,for those fellow contributors who have adopted a I’d just accept that BA has the right to take their gift back ,would accepting the gate computers recognition of the upgrade be something you’d consider?
Or would you deliberately put your upgrade at risk by pointing out BA’s mistake to the cabin crew?

Edit to add……And please ,try and answer honestly. : ) ………Just read your last response Alex, so I’m sure you would raise the error and sit in WT+ : )

[MartynSinclair]

Alex – “Free upgrades are nice. Very nice. But I suspect many of us have become so accustomed to receiving them that we’ve become blaze about it”

This thread is creating many realisations… My last upgrade was over 150 sectors ago, around October 2014.. HKG-LHR (J to F)…. Do they still happen THAT often…?

[SimonS1]

@canucklad – because the OP had a boarding pass for Y+ in his pocket which once on board he chose not to disclose to the crew.

[canucklad]

The more I think about this, the more I’m in Swiss ExPats corner.
And actually salute him standing up to an organization that treated him with greedy contempt.
And make no mistake,,if you fly BA regularly chances are, their putting their money before customer service ideology will also affect your travel travel plans.

It’s a one way street……

When it suited BA to upgrade,it was because they had oversold their flight.
Upgrading to a vacant seat costs nothing to BA. Not upgrading costs them dearly in hotels,compensation etc…

In this day and age, airlines like BA don’t upgrade to reward your loyalty,they upgrade out of cost consideration.

It’s quite shabby behaviour to renege on something that’s costing nothing other than supplying edible food, just because your corporate culture programmes computers to relocate you back,when it realises that it won’t have to pay compensation after all.

And as I’ve said before,we in the UK truly suffer from a Tut and shrug shoulders accept our fate” mentality that suits corporations just fine.

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