[canucklad]

Great post DerekVH, encapsulates everything BA (Cruz & Walsh) wants us to believe every time we buy into the “ To Fly, To Serve” message

The cynical me, can see IAG opting to have as many faces as the town clock . The loan agreement for their weakest brands is duplicitous in the extreme, and would suggest that Walsh & Cruz have scented blood. Receiving the loan is subject to strict rules excluding BA from benefiting .

Their stand on UK state aid therefore suggests they’re happy to destabilise BA in the short term thereby justifying the redundancies , but more importantly from our point of view can ironically and hypocritically take the economic high ground and lobby the government not to grant aid to Virgin , thus killing 2 birds with one stone.

They come out of this not as a majority player but a true monopoly

Shenanigans that JR Ewing would be proud of !

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openfly, speedbird1969, DerekVH

[PhilipHart]

A propos the Virgin issue, please have a(nother) look at the link I shared earlier on this forum topic – https://www.businesstraveller.com/forums/topic/ba-to-make-12000-redundant/#post-997057

[GivingupBA]

DerekVH wrote, “Slice him in half, and you’ll discover the BA logo running through him like a stick of Brighton rock…. Duty. Honour. Responsibility. Decency. Solid British Airways characteristics…. BA is his life, and in spite of me telling him for years that his spaniel-like fidelity would always go unrecognised (how right I was), he has stubbornly put his unswerving duty to “The Company” ahead of any other commitments to family or friends.”

That was a very excellent long post, Derek. Thank you. I have seen the professionalism that you wrote about on BA myself, since the early 1970s. It rings true. And I don’t forget Barbara Harrison, who died in 1968 on BOAC flight 712, staying on board a 707 on fire on the runway despite the great danger to help a passenger get off the plane at Heathrow.

[Roa1]

It’s sad and depressing to read and hear everyday that a small virus emerging from China, has literally turned our daily routine into a world of uncertainty and unending nightmare. And, perhaps even worse to come! Who would have thought that some 8 weeks ago, the “capitalist system”, of people going to work and spending their wages could disappear overnight! In America, a staggering 30 million people have lost their jobs in just 4 weeks, and millions and millions of those poor souls are without health insurance cover. Compared to them, I am glad to be in the UK Plc. Meanwhile, I am truly sorry for all those hard working salaried employees, including British Airways staffs, who are facing uncertain future. Long time ago, someone told me that we are just “cogs in a wheel”, replaceable and nothing permanent.

Having said that, from memory, I remember reading last year when British Airways Pilots’ went on strike, after rejecting a pay offer of 11.5%, which according to BA, a captain’s pay would have been more than £200,000 per year! BALPA union, said that 93% of the pilots’ had voted to strike. That strike t didn’t go down well with the British public that, BA pilots’ earning such big salaries were striking for 3 days or so!

The Trade Unions at British Airways, in my opinion, ought to be less intransigent, negotiate with the company and protect jobs of the low or medium paid employees, instead of suggesting that they will be “fighting tooth and nail”. The higher paid pilots’, management, managerial staffs, as well as BA company directors should receive a quarter of their salaries as a gesture of altruism towards their less well-off loyal colleagues. Some of whom may never find another similar job. The TU should also understand, that the slump in consumer spending across all major economies is certain to be the deepest recession in living memory, share prices have already collapsed, companies and businesses are struggling to survive, supply chains are going to be hit badly and the list just goes on. Frankly, I’d re-nationalised the whole lot, and bring them back into public ownership; BA, Railways, Ports, Harbours, BT, etc.

Against the background of competing claims for supporting the economy to gov’t think tank;… “when should public funds be used to rescue companies and their share holders”? unfortunately, I can’t imagine BA going on that list just yet, because it has NO strategic value.

[capetonianm]

according to BA, a captain’s pay would have been more than £200,000 per year

I remember that figure being bandied around at the time of the dispute, and that it turned out to be the very highest that a senior captain could expect with the maximum allowances and so on. I asked a friend of mine whom I know well enough (BA 747 captain with many years left hand seat experience) and he laughed and said : “I wish …”

[Roa1]

I lifted the statement about BA pilots’ pay from a news reporting during the industrial dispute late last year. Having read your comments and to satisfy my curiousity, the following might be of interest; How does “British Airways Compare with Rivals on Pilot Pay”, ft.com/content/dccfd66d6-d3e1-1109-8367-807ebd53ab77

I am not sure whether that includes pay negotiated last December.

Meanwhile, I do have great sympathy for ordinary workers of BA, and others, losing their promising careers, knowledge and skills, and with an uncertain future, in obtaining a similar role in the dwindling airline industry.

[Inquisitive]

DerekVH wrote “BA is his life, and in spite of me telling him for years that his spaniel-like fidelity would always go unrecognised (how right I was), he has stubbornly put his unswerving duty to “The Company” ahead of any other commitments to family or friends”…

Very touching comments.

Without diluting the BA employees sincerity, I can assure that I can replace BA with many numbers on Companies including large multinationals and 80% employees are as dedicated and go beyond their duty everyday.

And sometimes many of these dedicated employees receive the wrong end of the stick during a downturn of that company.
That is present day business. Unfortunate for some but that is life.

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cwoodward, Woodpecker, capetonianm, ImissConcorde

[Ro51fr]

Inquisitive’s comments are so true. But without giving certain airlines leeway, these days top management has become detached from those below them.

This has led to a breakdown and break in communications as to what is happening on the shop floor. Yes shareholders have to be respected, but even shareholders want to see the company they have invested in are for the long-term looking anunfter customers.
Currently they very top of the company is not interested in the customer, but as the lockdown has shown, no customer means no cash flow.

People like WW and his Spanish underling might h t, but only might wake up to this.

[capetonianm]

Yes shareholders have to be respected, but even shareholders want to see the company they have invested in are for the long-term looking anunfter customers.

Perhaps they don’t realise that shareholders may well be customers.
I am an IAG shareholder but I won’t fly on any IAG airlines except EI, and I’d prefer to see better quality if I use those carriers than better dividends.
On the other hand I recently bought shares in EZY because I think they will prosper, eventually, and because it’s an airline I have always enjoyed flying on, a lot, since 1996.

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rferguson

[Johnnyg]

[quote quote=997294]People like WW and his Spanish underling might h t, but only might wake up to this.[/quote]

Do you really think so??

[SimonS1]

[postquote quote=997293][/postquote]

This is exactly true.

For 5 years I have avoided BA wherever possible. The pilots may be avuncular but the planes are generally dirty and on board service pretty average.

On short haul it is the equivalent of Easyjet with BoB and all that and on LH there are other airlines miles ahead.

I feel desperately sorry for the staff affected but it would make little practical difference to me whether or not BA existed.

[CathayLoyalist2]

If reported correctly, then BA is insisting those personnel not made redundant sign new zero hours contracts. I am not an employment lawyer, so can BA do that arbitrarily Redundancy payments will be capped at 20 years !. I stress if reported accurately.

[Ro51fr]

Frankly no.

[speedbird1969]

The company had stated that redundancy is now statutory so it’s capped at £15.6k max (or thereabouts) for a pilot with 30 years service this is probably about 10-20% of what they could have expected if the previously generous VR schemes were in place. And as a note with the current state of staff morale in the company, had they offered VR they could easily have achieved the numbers they require, but Mr Cruz mindset is that he will not spend 5p more than he legally has to and will decapitate the company to get there.

[rferguson]

This is a re-post from elsewhere but perfectly sums up the BA / IAG situation:

‘IAG Airlines:

– Iberia. E497m profit in 2019. E1b in state loans with Vueling. No redundancies.

– Vueling. E240m profit in 2019. E1b in state loans with IB. No redundancies.

– Aer Lingus. E276m profit in 2019. Pilots to work 5 days on 11 days off for forseeable future. VR package for 900 staff.

– British Airways. E1.92B in profit in 2019. Up to 12,000 staff to be made redundant and the majority of the remaining workforce told they will have to sign zero hours style contracts with all previous T&C’s ripped up.’

The world has certainly turned upside down. Even The Sun is sounding reasonable these days!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11535901/british-airways-staff-not-laid-off-to-sign-zero-hour-contract/

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