BA to make 12,000 redundantBack to Forum
Roa1 : When I responded to your detailed post, I realised it was no longer there, meaning that my reply didn’t make much sense to anyone except you, as nobody would have seen it.
There seems to be a problem in this forum with disappearing posts, incorrect post counts, and posts just not appearing. It’s happened to me several times and I’ve emailed the BT team but had no response. I’m not saying this as a criticism, I am sure they are working under difficult conditions and others have pointed out that the forum software probably needs a few tweaks.
Did you edit your post after submitting it, because in my case that seems to be when the problems occur?
Hopefully one of our moderators will see this and have it looked into.
Changing tack slightly and again addressing the publishers of the forum, I read somewhere that the funding is very limited. May I suggest that they look at some form of subscription to use this excellent forum? I for one would be very glad to put my hand into my pocket, although I already subscribe to the magazine.
I realise that this might put off casual posters (which might not be a bad thing sometimes!) but maybe a new poster could be allowed a limited number of posts free.20 May 2020
Thanks for the feedback. Despite having 5 degrees, my IT skills are very basic, and no, I didn’t edit. I’m now having another go at re-writing the earlier (expunged) piece about the British Airways “Flight Attendants Restructuring” at LHR. The new structure being discussed will create a more streamlined, fair and equitable T & C, except for the pay cuts. It does away with multiple contracts of cabin crews based at LHR/LGW, performing identical roles but treated differently;
Worldwide Fleets – higher paid crews operating long haul flights
Euro Fleets – higher paid crews operating short haul flights
Mixed Fleets – lower paid crews, operating both short haul and long haul flights. These crews are paid less, has a high turnover due to their T & C,
pay and structure.
Flight crews on other airlines work under a SINGLE contract, can be roosted to work on any flight/routing, and the pay SCALE is the same for all, but that does not seem to be the case at British Airways.
At BA, a flight is either crewed completely with Mixed Fleet, Euro Fleet, or Worldwide Fleet and the contracts don’t allow for crews to mix. If this is the
case, then I am surprised the Trade Unions were party to it, and had allowed this type of treatment amongst the cabin crews. Frankly, no one would like to be treated less favourably in a job, when others doing the same job are treated better. Rather bizarre, in my opinion!
Under the new proposal, there would be a single contract, and no longer a mixed fleet crew. All LHR based crews would work long haul and short haul flights and to all destinations. Crews would be trained and certified to work on A320, A350, A380, 747, 777 and 787.
There would be THREE roles on every flight. A Manager (replacing the old CSD role) in charge of the whole plane. Customer Service Leaders (in charge of specific cabins), and Cabin Crews (everyone else). The basic pay for cabin crews would be £24K per year. The pay for Manager would be £32K. The pay could be on some kind of incremental rate between a Cabin Crew/Cabin Crew (Customer Service Leader). The other “benefits in cash and in kind” are expected to be transferred under the “continuity of employment protection rights”.
More sad news, that another 1,000 BA people in Wales are losing their jobs. There seems to be no end to this nightmare.20 May 2020
‘Flight crews on other airlines work under a SINGLE contract, can be roosted to work on any flight/routing, and the pay SCALE is the same for all, but that does not seem to be the case at British Airways.’
Not correct. Most ‘legacy’ carriers actually work pretty much the same as BA with ‘old’ and ‘new’ contract crew. Examples, Air France, Iberia, Qantas, Air NZ.
The same applies to ‘any flight/routing’. Using the aforementioned carriers ALL of them ‘fleet’ their crews. None operate a mix of long and short haul. Air NZ actually takes it to the extreme – their crew (both old and new contract) are licensed on ONE aircraft type.
‘Crews would be trained and certified to work on A320, A350, A380, 747, 777 and 787.’
No. Under EASA regulations you can only work on three aircraft types. BA did get an exception from the CAA to include the 787 & 777 under the same license. So it is envisaged all crew will be trained on the 320, 777/787, and then some will be 350, some 380, some 747.
‘There would be THREE roles on every flight. A Manager (replacing the old CSD role) in charge of the whole plane. Customer Service Leaders (in charge of specific cabins), and Cabin Crews (everyone else).’
There will be only two roles. Manager and rest of crew. The Customer Service Leader role will go. Non-manager crew will also be in charge on some short haul services.
‘ The basic pay for cabin crews would be £24K per year.’
If only. If this was the case the proposal may be more palpable. This is the figure including hourly flight/trip pay and meal per diems. The basic is likely to be more in the region of £15k. Try get a mortgage anywhere in the UK with that on your payslip.22 May 2020
Thanks for the added clarity.
However, on the question of a “Single Contract, I said that flight crews on “OTHER airlines” work on single contracts, you disagreed, and say “NOT CORRECT”and give examples of the legacy airlines. What about the “non-legacy airlines”? My understanding is they have single generic contracts(but for some tweaking), their T & C, pay scales, etc are all the same. That could be the reason why BA is considering a single generic contract for all flight attendants. Or bring equity and fairness to the lower paid Euro Fleets flight attendants.
I was expecting some serious comments or discussions on pay and other differentials of flight attendants working on (Worldwide Mixed, the Euro Fleets), performing similar roles and being treated differently, some more favourably and others less. And if these changes were not to happen then the Euro Fleets crews would continue to be at the bottom end of the ladder, and UNITE beating the drums about their poverty pay!
On that, I can’t figure out your £15K. Let me suggest where that figure might have come from (my own guestimate): London Living Wage £10 X 8 hour day – £80 X 6 days = £480 X 52 weeks equal a gross figure of £24,960 pa. I guess this is where the nominal £24K has its origin. That was the base figure I had suggested to ASK1945 in my earlier response to him.
Meanwhile, nothing is clear cut, and the saving of jobs are more important.22 May 2020