BA redundnacies

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  • traveldoc1
    Participant

    “Anger rises as BA cuts start to bite”

    Report on BBC website:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53687338

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    AJDC
    Participant

    I don’t work for BA, but since March, I have had to take a 20% pay cut plus five weeks without pay spread over several months. I have a mortgage to pay but I still have a job and am managing.
    I don’t understand the “anger” from some in the article. Is the expectation that a for profit entity will continue to pay employees when there is no one purchasing the product to generate the necessary revenues?


    scotscrew
    Participant

    AJDC,

    I’m not sure you understand how the cabin crew pay structure works but it appears that the new contract, which people are being forced to sign or resign, would leave most of the senior crew a lot more than 20% out of pocket ( some up to 50%) and with very much reduced terms and conditions. I hope you’re not suffering this kind of brutal attack on your contract.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    I don’t work for BA, but since March, I have had to take a 20% pay cut plus five weeks without pay spread over several months. I have a mortgage to pay but I still have a job and am managing.

    Has your income been permanently cut by 50%?

    5 users thanked author for this post.

    ontherunhome
    Participant

    I do sympathise with the cabin crew, but in an international competitive market, companies have to compete. Maybe these salaries and benefits are from a different time, but with the current crisis, and lack of customers, 50% of a salary is better than 0%. It is not perfect, and they have a choice of finding alternative work, but you can gaurentee 1000’s of ec Virgin, Flybe, Monarch, Thomas Cook etc staff would willingly take these jobs.

    Sadly the unions have created a culture where unrealistic demands, result in the overall loss of work for their members, just look at how the motor industry was destroyed, and is still being destroyed by greedy unions. A business has to make a profit to survive.No profit, no business no jobs, in an international competition.

    FYI, I have taken a 50% pay cut since March, to ease cash flow in my own business, and so I can pay my staff, from my reserves. Sadly this will not be viable much longer due to lack of business.It is a reality, and maybe bA are using Covid as a smokescreen. Strikes will further damage the airline and the remaining jobs.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    Sadly the unions have created a culture where unrealistic demands, result in the overall loss of work for their members,

    Really? Could you expand in that – I wasn’t aware that was the case.


    GivingupBA
    Participant

    Sadly the unions have created a culture where unrealistic demands, result in the overall loss of work for their members,

    Really? Could you expand in that – I wasn’t aware that was the case.

    One very well-known and documented case in the US was the relationship between General Motors / the US car industry and the unions, it’s easy (so I won’t add a link) to find a lot about this on-line.

    PS I have a lot of sympathy for BA workers, who have (never mind my user name) looked after me so well and so consistently on flights over several decades.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    One very well-known and documented case in the US was the relationship between General Motors / the US car industry and the unions, it’s easy (so I won’t add a link) to find a lot about this on-line.

    This is a thread about BA redundancies. We are talking about BA cabin crew here not General Motors/the US car industry, which is about as relevant as rock climbing in the Falklands (unless one is trying to derail the discussion?).

    I was asking when BA crew made unrealistic demands? In my understanding T&Cs have been steadily eroded, for example with creation of new contracts like Mixed Fleet.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    esselle
    Participant

    One very well-known and documented case in the US was the relationship between General Motors / the US car industry and the unions, it’s easy (so I won’t add a link) to find a lot about this on-line.

    This is a thread about BA redundancies. We are talking about BA cabin crew here not General Motors/the US car industry, which is about as relevant as rock climbing in the Falklands (unless one is trying to derail the discussion?).

    I was asking when BA crew made unrealistic demands? In my understanding T&Cs have been steadily eroded, for example with creation of new contracts like Mixed Fleet.

    SimonS1 you only have to read some of the drivel from McCluskey to see how the union dinosaurs continue to believe that BA are over reacting and actually don’t need to change very much at all.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    But my understanding is that cabin crew packages have steadily been eroded over the years – allowances cut, new contracts like Mixed Fleet and Euro Fleet introduced and so on.

    I don’t see much evidence of unrealistic demands. Just because a statement is made by a union leader it doesn’t automatically make it drivel.

    Reality is Covid has come at a good time for BA to force through contract changes. On the other hand I think the Government has clocked this and there might be some ‘repayment’. For example there is already pressure to reintroduce the 80/20 slot rule in which case BA might need to spend a lot of money flying empty planes around or alternatively seeing their slots reallocated….


    FaroFlyer
    Participant

    But my understanding is that cabin crew packages have steadily been eroded over the years – allowances cut, new contracts like Mixed Fleet and Euro Fleet introduced and so on.

    I don’t see much evidence of unrealistic demands. Just because a statement is made by a union leader it doesn’t automatically make it drivel.

    Reality is Covid has come at a good time for BA to force through contract changes. On the other hand I think the Government has clocked this and there might be some ‘repayment’. For example there is already pressure to reintroduce the 80/20 slot rule in which case BA might need to spend a lot of money flying empty planes around or alternatively seeing their slots reallocated….

    I do not think that existing packages have been eroded, until now. The new crew packages are much lower but long serving crew still, in most cases, have their original packages. Understandably they don’t want to let go of packages signed up for in the “glory days”. Equally understandably this cannot continue from BA point of view, and now is the time that BA can push this realignment through.

    The good times for legacy crew are at an end. New employees will not have much sympathy.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    Andysilver66
    Participant

    Nowadays staff are viewed as a commodity by companies, in that the BA employees were worth paying the pay and package years ago but in competitive times like now those same employees can be replaced with more cost effective staff , the Covid situation has accelerated the need to do this .
    How this is achieved fairly will require compromise and negotiation from all sides . If BA thinks it can just fire and rehire because that’s the only way they can run the company effectively then their slots retention needs looking at by the authorities as it is anti competitive, but they want to run the company by tearing up contracts to be more competitive, you can’t just pick and choose which bits suit you


    Raffles99
    Participant

    The bottom line is that some BA cabin crew are earning £80,000 per year (admittedly not many, but they do exist) whilst new recruits are on around £15,000. No-one has ever presented evidence that customer satisfaction scores are any lower for Mixed Fleet. This game was up a long time ago.

    What is astonishing is how few people have left Eurofleet / WorldWide since Mixed Fleet was created – BA has grown massively since 2010 but EF/WW are still 60% of crew. This could be a sign of an incredibly happy and content workforce, but given that this is BA we’re talking about, it is fairer to assume that a similar salary could not be found elsewhere.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    Sicily96
    Participant

    BA has to take action now,like any business it’s not sustainable to keep paying staff,where business has depleted.
    You hear of job cuts in all sectors so why should it be any different for BA staff. It’s not feasible to pay staff when the revenues are just not there.What we need to realise and ask is how would BA staff run their own business given the dire situation and circumstances we are faced with?
    It is a cut throat business you either sink or swim.With regards to cabin crew pay and the differences in pay,this is across the airline even a graduate is paid far less than someone who has worked for 30 years and has no qualifications but because of incremental pay rises is on a far higher pay scale,this is something new staff do not receive.There should be no distinctions whatsoever.

    BA has to take the appropriate action,it is survival of the fittest.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    You hear of job cuts in all sectors so why should it be any different for BA staff. It’s not feasible to pay staff when the revenues are just not there.

    I thought the taxpayer had been paying the staff via the furlough scheme?

    1 user thanked author for this post.
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