[MartynSinclair]

employees earning below £8,500 are treated differently for P11D purposes (they appear to get away with more perks without incurring tax or national insurance).

Higher Paid = over £8,500 (HMRC definition not mine!!)

[CallMeShirley]

Martyn,
Sorry my post wasn’t clear. I meant as it stands pilots or other uniformed staff are not permitted into the lounges in uniform. To facilitate pilots and crew members coming to the lounge at times of disruption to reassure and inform customers, we would require a change in current corporate policy.

In a highly rule based organisation like BA, no pilot will voluntarily come to the lounge in uniform if its against company rules, as it is right now. Changing this rule shouldn’t be too difficult, particularly as the pilot will be doing something to directly benefit the company. Everytime I’ve seen a pilot do this, most recently at JFK, the customers have been most impressed. Something about the authority and the uniform I guess.

Anyway, I hope this demonstrates the “out of the box” thinking that goes on and the lengths some of us will go to to improve the customer experience. Nothing at all to do with giving “overpaid primadonnas” yet another perk as our communist colleagues would have you believe 🙂

[BeckyBoop]

Thanks Martyn, I will check this over with the CFO when shes back…one more thing I get treated to corporate entertaing such as lunches, dinners, horse racing and tickets to Arsenal games, but this is all paid for by my co and clients, customers should i be declaring all this to hrmc as well? xxx

Shirley, i would love to see BA pilots in the lounge they always stop and talk to me on the plane when passing, they are so charming and well spoken 🙂 xx

[MartynSinclair]

CallMeShirley – I have seen uniformed staff in the GVA lounge playing cards, with other passengers having to stand. If you would like me to find the thread, happily do so.

Last Xmas during the snow disruption, a Skipper stood by the First Class check in fielding passenger questions – excellent customer focus.

Ideally, the need for uniformed crew to walk around the lounges should not be needed if the lounge staff made themselves more visible and customer friendly.

I am sure no crew member would be fired or reprimanded for providing customer assistance in any part of the airport as long as the manager in that part of the airport was informed.

[Binman62]

Crew in lounges…..already happens.

T5 galleries Dec 17th 2010- snow disruption. 2 flight crew – 5 cabin flight crew trying to justify operational chaos at 3pm following an inch of snow. The flight crew departed in the end bruised and bloodied but the cabin crew remained drinking coffee. Just how a riot did not occur is beyond me. I still have the pictures.

Fog disruption Nov 20th 2012 crew cam to my lounge at European airport. Just as well as no BA ground staff ever came near and no proper explanation of what was going was made to customers.

I have frequently seen cabin crew in uniform particularly in Galleries in T5, less so in First and never in Concorde room, which does seem to retain its exclusivity. I also frequently see staff in civvies with their IDs clearly on show having a cuppa and sitting chatting with passengers.

As I said earlier I don’t care what people get as a perk just do not flaunt it in front of me and certainly do not let it impact me.

Disgusted is right, given the time loyal passengers have in the last few years a bit less naval gazing and bit more service is long overdue.

[CallMeShirley]

I think the problem is the local manager just goes by the rules and doesn’t like having uniformed staff in the lounge, hence the need to change the policy to enable pilot visits.

Also, most lounges are managed by third parties and they just “follow the rules, guv” so I expect there is a global need to make policy fit what the company wants.

In any event, the point is this isn’t about pilots or anyone else being dished out silver cards but about allowing pilots to bring something extra to the table. I understand they wont be paid, nor are they expecting to be paid, any extra for this. just shows some of us can do extra without demanding extra. Hot towels in WT+ anyone?!

[MartynSinclair]

CallMeShirley – I really think you should check what you are writing.

“Also, most lounges are managed by third parties and they just “follow the rules, guv”

In GVA, I know the lounge staff quite well and was told that they had initially refused the BA crew entrance, but they simply walked ignored the staff and walked in.

One of the guests affected was the band Simply Red who were unable to sit together due to this particular crew’s behavior.

[londonlad]

Martyn

On the subject of tax on a perk. Currently BA pays the tax on behalf of each employee when they use such perks. All employees get long service or managerial benefits, recently all Cabin Crew were able to benefit from a Club priority ticket when Staff Travel was changed in 2009. The flying tax is paid by the individual, the taxable benefit tax by BA.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“Higher Paid = over £8,500 (HMRC definition not mine!!)”

Absolutely, Martyn, not having a pop at you.

But it is bl**dy ridiculous that you can be a ‘higher paid employee’ when working a 37.5 hour week on less than the minimum wage.

e.g. an 18 year old must be paid a minimum of £4.98 x 37.5 x 52 = £9,711, so £8,500 is lower than this by some margin.

Just a stealth tax, IMHO.

[londonlad]

Here’s on for you Martyn

A businessman flies to JFK once a month on company business in Club and bulids up an account full of AVIOS points.

He decides to take his family of 5 to Mauritius in First for a special Xmas treat. He cashes in his points and books the tickets, wow a saving of £22,000 in price compared to ba.com.

Now considering all those points have been earned and payed for by his company, doesn’t the ability to take his family away in First for free constitute a perk? After all he hasn’t contributed a dime personally towards those points…

[MartynSinclair]

Long Service awards, should not amount to more than £50 per year and should not be paid again for period of 10 years.

In most companies, if tax is paid on behalf of an employee, that is a benefit in kind and should be a taxable P11D benefit.

BA employees probably benefit from an non contractual agreement, negotiated by a Union and between employer/HMRC regarding the tax paid on perks and should view this as an additional employment benefit.

If BA employees were to suffer a P11D charge on all benefits, I am sure the number of unused staff seats would increase.

This was part of my argument on the 60B thread. If an employee receives a benefit, for work purposes and then gives it away, whether to another employee or to somebody outside of the business, there is a taxable benefit, especially, where the amounts involved are the cost of airtravel, in what ever class.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

londonlad

As I understand it, points are awarded to the individual for travelling on an airline, not the company who pays for the tickets, so payment is a red herring.

Are the points a benefit in kind? I don’t think so (although I stand to be corrected by a tax professional), because they are not a part of the remuneration package, i.e. the airline chooses to reward loyalty to a traveller, not the company.

The points then become, in effect, a discount to use; should a Tesco customer pay tax on their discounted prices, which are under RRP? Or should the careful hotel room buyer pay tax on shrewdly negotiated rates?

I think not.

[MartynSinclair]

londonlad

the simple answer londonlad is that in that circumstance, there could be a tax charge.

In the USA (I know we are in the UK), but this very subject is currently going through a judicial process.

Some employers state that airmiles earned through company expenditure, should be used for company flights.

DoS – I think you will find that benefits paid to employees outside of any contractual arrangement become benefits in kind and can be taxable. I will of course stand to be corrected.

[londonlad]

Many of the Club/First tickets that staff enjoy are also the result of loyalty to BA, they are given after long service.

I fail to see why business travellers should be able to benefit through no cost to them, yet people on here seem to resent staff being able to take their families away on holiday in the same way.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Martyn

I agree with you on benefit in kind angle, but don’t think the employer has anything to do with the awarding of miles to the employee, which is a personal reward from the airline.

If that employee travelled on the airline for leisure, they would be awarded the same points for the same flights/classes.

How if the employer says ‘stay over a couple of nights and enjoy a break and pays for the costs, I would say that is a benefit in kind.

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