[Rob.Bedcrew]

Gruppenfuhrer Krug – Guten morgen!

Wie gehts?

[NTarrant]

Here we go again, yet another tread about BA and BASSA and the rights and wrongs of who has done what, who said what, who is wrong and who is right about this dispute.

It is about time that BT pulled the plug on these debates as they have nothing to do with Business Travel per se and are getting very much the same, an outlet for BASSA or disaffected crew to have a go at the people that actually pay their wages because they don’t agree with you.

[Loftboy]

NTarrant

I do not believe that this should be pulled. As an independent observer on this I would like to hear what has to be said.

Surely if there has been a wrongdoing then it should be investigated?

People, including myself, put a lot of good money BA’s way and I would like to think this money is going to a company that upholds CSR principles; something I have a great interest in.

[BlackTower]

ZZZZ….

BA Crew are overpaid, overindulged and sometimes poor to nasty in their behavior. Cut their costs and spend more on food which is uniformly ghastly up front in Long Haul

The choice of UNITE to back these people for strikes in preference to many more needy members is truely baffling.

[craigwatson]

Totally agree BlackTower

I and I also agree with the Bassamentalists, this has been going on far to long now, and BA has been to patient. Fire the lot and lets move on!

[Rob.Bedcrew]

Craig

Glad “we” are in agreement

“I and I also agree”

At least you are not alone 😉

[Sparepocket]

BlackTower…fair point about overpaid crew.What is the European bare minimum salary for cabin crew for airlines like,say, BA, LH, AF-KL, the biggest, give or take currency fluctuations?
Do crew at the other major European airlines enjoy the same indulgences?
I think it would be quite interesting to see how other employees across Europe stack up against BA.

[pixelmeister]

Ahhh this old(ish) chestnut. I believe that the material quoted is an email issued by BASSA to those members who have registered an email address with the branch. This puts a very different light on the content.

Now given the alleged volume of disciplinary cases, I submit that it is not unreasonable for an employer to
a) set aside specific facilities for the storage of information relating to individual cases.
b) use the same facilities for processing information relating to cases
c) to ensure consistency and fairness, bring in a team of people from other areas of the business to undertake any preliminary investigations and to adjudicate on matters.
d) prior to any suspension hearings have a prewritten of suspension available for use in the event that there is a requirement for suspending an individual pending further investigations.

All of these points would be standard practice in any large organisation. I note that the missive comes from the BASSA branch and does not have the seal of approval of the Unite leadership. Maybe this is because the leadership are slightly more in touch with the reality of the situation.

Alasdair, I was interested by your points on pay awards. Doesn’t the offer on the table for cabin crew include a 6% pay award ? That’s more than the 4% you quote as being put to engineers. The deal with flight crew was part of a package that BALPA negotiated back in 2009, a point in time when the two cabin crew unions also had the opportunity to strike a deal as part of the overall cost reduction programme. They didn’t and this is the result.

Robbed Crew, isn’t it time that the branches of Unite involved in this dispute re-examined the offer on the table and put it to a vote ? The numbers are stacking up against the die-hards. The withdrawn ballot had 5751 votes in favour of strike action. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some cabin crew received multiple ballot papers. It is thus not inconceivable that the figure of 5751 is an overstatement of the true number of members who voted against strike action. Regardless, even if one works on the figure of 5751 as being authentic, this is less than half the workforce, so it is true to say that the proposal for strike action doesn’t have majority support amongst cabin crew. In that context, surely now is the time for Unite to attempt to salvage some sort of deal.

[Hippocampus]

I suspect that, in truth, we as passengers were not the original intended audience for the OP’s message. It is telling that many of Duncan Holley’s messages to BASSA members are signed off “Keep The Faith”. Of course, to keep the faith, you simply need to believe. You do not need evidence. And verifiable evidence such as court judgments and audited financial statements must be discarded because of the apparently superior authority of the claim of union busting. Because people claim repeatedly claim this dispute is about union busting it must be true. And any questions/arguments in response must be ignored or responded to by a personal attack on the poster. Of course on the BASSA forum (where I expect the post first appeared) anyone who asks awkward questions is banned from the forum and the thread deleted. You should not ask questions. You should not require evidence. You simply need to believe.

Anyone who upsets the narrative of union busting is corrupt/baised/morally bankrupt or simply unable to “read between the lines”. The judiciary is corrupt, the media is biased, third party organisations (the CAA, PwC) and the pilots are in the pay of BA. There’s always an explanation. There’s always someone else to blame.

Some of what the OP says may have happened. But not as some plot worthy of another series if 24. For example, BA will have a list of disciplinary cases related to the dispute. But these were provided to Unite because Unite wanted to discuss them as part of the dispute negotiations.

In any event, as I say, we will soon have the benefit of the first Employment Tribunal in the case of the sacking of Duncan Holley. However if BA wins the case, regardless of what is there in black and white in the Tribunal decision, there will be an explanation and lies and half truths will circulate to justify the claim this is all about union busting.

Keep the faith everyone. Have a good weekend.

[Bill_Hants]

NTarrant

Are you saying they are “stupid moaners”?

[craigwatson]

well if he isnt, i will!

[craigwatson]

sparepocket – in reply to your asking about other airlines salaries.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article7095777.ece

BA average salary – 31,400 virgin – 14,400 BMI – 17,200

[mussaman]

if BA staff are so unhappy and so badly treated then vote with their feet and go get a better job as is your right.

in these reccessionary times turning noses up at 4% payrises when unemployment rises doesnt win any friends

considering most unions are run like a semi dictatorship anyway its all a little much

if you have been illegally dismissed you have rights under employment law.

if your having to give up a payrises or work more hours for less money – then welcome to the real world!!! as its happening in every industry..

[Alasdair]

Mussaman, I repeat :

“Are you encouraging a situation whereby it’s acceptable for workers to have less rights/support in the workplace & for the rich to get richer. This is happening all over the UK at the moment and it’s so easy to blame the individuals who are clinging to their long term careers.

Why would you be happy with that situation? I just don’t understand some people’s sense of community and logic.

It’s shameful that very “put up and shut up attitude.” Luckily as it stands, there is law in the UK recognising Unions and ideally negotiation is encouraged. Nobody wants strike and Industrial Action, however, it is last resort.

Sure, this is business and a financial status quo needs to be achieved. However, this dispute has been running alongside a (rather lame) settlement by the pilots Union BALPA, and similarly Engineering (a 4% pay deal). Cost cutting strategies across BA are neither linear nor consistent.

Funny how those two work groups for example could not be replaced so immediately by Volunteer workers… hinting again at how BA aims to keep them and their Unions sweet whilst busting the more “inconvenient” body BASSA/Unite and their undervalued disposable Crew workforce.

Pilots, Engjneers are all under pressure and not entirely content with their jobs, however, they were more readily given what they want in their less than comparable cost-savings deals.

What Crew earn is nobodies business if the airline offered them this, which they did. An offer to negotiate a deal with BA was blatantly knocked on the head in preference to union busting.

Their insistence and anger is now clear.

[Loftboy]

Perhaps some further reading may assist some in forming an opinion that may go some way, to make them realise and understand, the threat that is inherent when people allow themselves to be walked over and suppressed. It is not only, their own, imminent future, but also the future of those to follow which may suffer.

The driving down of wages and terms & conditions, has the potential to spawn widespread social problems, many of which we are quick to lay at the feet of individuals or classes of people, however many of these are the results of a downtrodden and underpaid workforce.

In his book “Fast Food Nation”, Eric Schlosser, while revealing the bad practices and lax safety rules, that have spread through the fast food business, due to the constant driving down of costs, also highlights the social problems that these raise.

Jobs within this industry in the US are now mainly undertaken by immigrants, due to the low pay and working conditions. This results in the fact that some people, have to work two and three jobs, just to make ends meet. The fact that these people are working so hard is depriving them of time at home with their families and the children of these individuals, are left with neither the vision of a role model, nor an overseer to temper recalcitrant or errant behaviour.

The problem becomes self perpetuating as the children of these, over worked under paid people, having neither supervision nor discipline, due to the parent’s absence, fall in with the wrong sorts and despise their own parents for their lowly role. This lack of respect is perpetuated through society and in the end; everyone has to bear the brunt. Bad behaviour and crime increase and so do the chances of YOU, becoming the victim of it.

Is that what we really all want?

[Author]

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