[SergeantMajor]

British Airways should invest in a Southern African airline like, er, Comair, perhaps?

http://www.comair.co.za/brands/british-airways

That’s handy, as IAG already owns 18% of it. Handily, it will continue to fly to Zambia.

There was talk a while ago of Comair launching a service to London on a 777 (!) but very much Pie in the Sky:

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/325592-comair-kulula-london.html

[canucklad]

I stand corrected SM, and rightly so …..had forgotten about Comair

However it does raise the issue about creative thinking again…..

I note with interest that Comair’s network is pretty limited within the South African COMSEA area….and they don’t fly to guess where ?

[sparkyflier]

Canucklad another informed an well articulated post.

Comair is decent etc etc, but too far south to be a hub for business and premium leisure destinations further north. Also the luggage theft rate at Joburg is quite prohibative.

BA could partner with this “Air Zambia”, as well as Rwandair, and these mini hubs in Joburg, Kigali and Lusaka would provide a formidable network and offering. These regions are huge growth areas.

An angle could be is that BA has pulled out of LUN as a temporary measure in order to negotiate better terms with the Zambian government

[SimonS1]

If BA has an 18% stake it’s surely even more embarassing that Comair should have had its entire fleet grounded recently for using expired parts.

http://www.theafricanaviationtribune.com/2013/08/south-africa-eleven-ba-comair-b737s.html

Comair do fly to Zambia but it’s to Livinsgtone so totally useless for business travellers.

Of course BA also had another franchise partner in Kenya (Regional Air) which went bust in 2005.

Canucklad – an interesting post but where is that 6% economic growth now coming from? Chinese and Middle Eastern investment. That’s why EK flights are full and BA can’t make it work.

[SergeantMajor]

Could be about better terms.

When you compare the economics using the slots with a 787 to Austin, and all the JV/oneworld benefits, plus the almost certain “sweeteners” given to BA to launch the route vs. a fuel-hungry 767 to a location which has exorbitant fuel costs, I know which route I’d prefer to offer.

Gone are the days when BA “has” to fly somewhere – if there is a market for a route (and Lusaka may be ideal for a point to point Gatwick slot using a low cost kulula-style operation on a more efficient leased aircraft) then so be it – a newcomer can make profit (if there’s one to be made) using a model more appropriate to the route.

It’s absolutely right that BA sticks to its profitability focus.

[sparkyflier]

Except that KLM also flies to LUN (with HRE) and it works very well for them!

And there are no historic/colonial links between Zambia, Zimbabwe and Netherlands, which shows there is demand for European flights if you get the scheduling right and are flexible with your operations.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ sparkyflyer – 13/09/2013 13:03 GMT

So right. Looking at getting to Kigali in Rwanda, and KLM has the wit to do a triangular route also taking in Entebbe and thereby ensuring additional traffic which, presumably, makes a “thin” route viable. If the Dutch can manage this, why not BA?

[londonlad]

Wow, perhaps the route planners for IAG should just read this forum. It does make me chuckle…. armchair CEO’s. Get back to work….!

[canucklad]

Cheers for your comment sparkflyer……..

However, I’ve got to say that it’ doesn’t take a genius to come up with what I did……

It becomes even more infurating when you consider that BA’s home base happens to be…..ehhhhmmmm…..

London..

The worlds leading financial hub !!.

And I agree, if we show faith in Central Southern Africa we can reap the rewards of friendship ….especially when the DCR & Zimbabwe issues are resolved……Angola being another classisc example of opportunities lost .

[dutchyankee]

@londonlad

+1

@sparkyflyer

All this talk about the virtues and cleverness of KLM, and that KL are doing very well on the route. First of all, where do you get that information from. KL only restarted service to LUN a little over a year ago after a 16 year absence . Have you asked why KL is back in LUN? Amsterdam schiphol is the worlds largest distribution center for fresh cut flowers, Zambia has become one of the largest exporters of flowers. KL and KQ were transporting a large amount of flowers from LUN to AMS via NBO, and hence KL’s return to LUN. A very specific reason for their flight, one that no other carrier would experience due to the floral center at Schiphol. I am certain, should the situation change, and for arguments sake a dedicated cargo flight by another carrier is opened between LUN and AMS, KL would drop the route as well as the passenger traffic alone would not make it viable. The Netherlands government is even closing their embassy in Zambia this year which should give an indication of the importance of the business relations between the two nations.

Business is business, and I am sure as sad as BA’s decision is, it has been taken for the right reasons.

[sparkyflier]

AnythonyDunn I have long felt that, and have indicated somewhere back on this thread, that BA mngt and route planners obtain their knowledge of global affairs, economics, trade flows & commodity developments from trusty sources such as the Express, Mail, Sun, Mirror and Star.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ sparkyflyer – 13/09/2013 13:34 GMT

LOL! +1

[maxgeorge]

Turkish Airlines serve LUN from IST, and their in- flight service is bloody marvellous. On board chef serving superb food, anyone?

J on TK beats F on BA, value for money, hands down. And not only is the lounge at IST a reminder of how good the old T4 Lounges used to be, but a new TK Arrivals Lounge has just been opened. And it stays open all day, and no jobsworths there to whisk away the brekkers at 12h30 sharp. As in flight, a live chef on hand to cook to order.

I gave up on BA when it became ever more difficult to redeem Avios for F or J flights to any popular destination, even 300+ days in advance, with date flexibility, and have just done a LAX-IST-JNB RT in J on Turkish for less than USD6K. Beat that, Willy!

And ja, Comair will get you up to Zambia from Jo’burg , but only to LIV (or Vic Falls in Zim). They’re still pretty good, especially their “SLOW” Lounges.

Intercape runs comfortable a/c buses from Livingstone up to Lusaka, but, while exciting for the traveller, they’re hardly suitable for the businessman.

SAA flies daily JNB-LUN.

So, once again, BA sinks below the horizon under Herr Walsh’s heavy hand….

[SenatorGold]

Do Turkish Airlines serve Lusaka directly? I wasn’t aware of that. If so, what aircraft do they use? Are flat beds available? Is their adherence to safety standards bloody marvellous? Not in my experience. I have experienced them allowing passengers to leave their seat immediately upon landing , They have justified this to BT on grounds of cultural differences. A poor excuse in my view so I’d fly BA any days. However Zambian friends of mine have retold me that it can be cheaper to fly from Lusaka to London via JNB on SAA and BA with the advantage of bettervairctaft. In the past Comair served Lusaka and Ndola from JNB.

[maxgeorge]

I’ve not flown TK to LUN yet, so cannot comment, but their website is easy enough to navigate. IST-JNB and CPT is done with a shiny new Airbus with fully flat 2-3-2 in J ( no F ). Just did it last week, and IST-LAX on a 777, also fully flat.
Indeed, SAA down to Jo’burg is a possibility, but that’s quite a detour. and even transit passengers have to endure security and immigration delays at JNB. Plus the thrill of gambling on your check-in baggage’s final destination.
As for passengers leaping prematurely to their feet on landing, the only nation that seems to be orderly enough not to do that nowadays would perhaps be the Finns, and Finnair has yet to head south of the Zambezi.

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