[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“BA remains on track to have a consistency advantage over other airlines”

So it doesn’t now, that’s good to know.

“One Swallow does not a summer make.”

I just call them as I see them, on merit. This one was good.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

Although the seats themselves are not wonderful, it was amazing to see the speed at which LH refitted their shorthaul fleet with NEK seats earlier this year. That said, in their case it was a backwards step in terms of product as their shorthaul seats were probably the best C seats around. It just shows what can be achieved when there is organisation and determination to achieve.

Upgraded F on the 747 is almost there too even though a number of 744s are going to be retired as the 748s are introduced next year. No excuses from LH about retiring planes leading to inconsistency. On the 748 there will be 8 F seats in the nose in the same space as BA have 14. One will of course be more exclusive than the other and already offers much better food and crew who want to work rather than regard passengers as an annoyance.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

LPPSKrisflyer

I agree in both respects with your comments about the NEK seats, I don’t like them very much either (okay for 1-2 hours, wouldn’t like to sit for much longer in one.)

As you say, LH has rolled them out very quickly, almostly relentlessly.

I’m just pleased that we don’t have a ‘Alt Prosecco’ personna on here, who goes on and on about how great LH is.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

DoS

I don’t really travel with LH as often as I might like to but I do think that of the big European three they are light years ahead of the rest on all fronts except their long haul C seats. I’ve always been able to sleep on them so I don’t complain and at least you stand no chance of facing backwards which you stand a 50% chance of on one airline and that’s something I really do dislike.

I could have a go at posting their virtues at every turn 😉 IMO they would compare favourably!!

[Danwolf]

One thing I’ve noticed about the NCW seats on BA is that, whilst the seats are the same. The IFE/AVOD are different. In the past few months I have had 3 different ‘type.’

744 – AVOD with 4:3 screen

773ER – New AVOD with widescreen and new touchscreen GUI (looks like a bit like the PS3 homescreen)

772 – Individual video screens, but movies showing on loop.

Generally speaking, I just use my ipad/Kindle Fire for any viewing content, but getting on the plane, turning on the IFE to find it half way through a movie is a tad annoying if I want to (actually for once) watch something on there.

[fclassflyer]

Please excuse the digression, however does anyone know when the upgrade of the Long haul 767’s will begin. I currently use these aircraft into East Africa and am tired of the old CW (I know there are fans amongst you but for me the NCW is a much better product).

Additionally will the catering be upgraded along with the cabins? Recently flew Dar-LHR. Catering consisted of breakfast that would not even approach the standards of my most recent CE flight and then absolutely nothing until 1.5 hours before landing when I was served with a very sorry looking sandwich.

[VintageKrug]

The 767 interior refresh will commence in January 2012.

The 767 cannot take the latest iteration of Club World seat due to cabin size issues, and any installation of NGCW would require recertification, further delaying change. Apparently the New Club World seat will be “refreshed” with white plastic to bring the shell up to date.

[LeTigre]

More “white plastic”…how exciting!

Really, considering that LH is more than capable of refitting a larger fleet faster, BA’s laziness is indefensible.

I was, however, most interested to see you mention, VK, that all aircraft staying for the long-term will be updated (in respect to 777s) but I have some questions:
-how many?
-when?
-what do you mean by long-term (in number of years) ?
-how does BA plan to retire aircraft that it has as of yet not ordered a replacement for?

It is a bit strange that BA seems willing to have 747s until they are 20-25 years old when the other airlines of the world (who care about passengers) retire planes as soon as they get to 10 years. Surely this a PR opportunity missed!

[VintageKrug]

BA maintains its fleet to a very high standard; they have in the past had a policy of purchasing aircraft outright, and much in the same way as you tend to switch a leased card annually, without much thought as to its condition at the end of the lease, but retain a car bought from new for longer and ensure it’s well maintained/serviced, so is the logic behind BA’s fleet.

It’s fair to say the 767s should have been long gone by now, as well as a fair few of the 747s, but the delays to the A380 and 787 programme were outwith BA’s control.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“they have in the past had a policy of purchasing aircraft outright”

Only partially correct.

BA bought some and leased others.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

I don’t think delays in the A380 and 787 programmes can be blamed for the sorry state of BAs long haul fleet. The delays were well known and the opportunity was there years ago to bring the sad and sorry offering up to date. BA chose not to do that but to run the product in to the ground rather than invest.

There’s also something about the timeliness of orders. SIA ordered in 2000 and have been operating the A380 for more than four years and have fourteen in service, EK are serving at least fifteen destinations with their fleet of nineteen, AF have six, LH have eight, QF eleven and BA are still waiting for delivery of their first one having not ordered until 2007, a whole seven years behind the leaders and using clapped out products and excuses in the meantime. You only have to look at the new TG F offering to see what can be achieved while waiting for A380s to be delivered and again you see how far short BA are falling.

Yet again, BA offer something substandard while reaching for the ceiling rather than the sky.

[VintageKrug]

I thought all the 747s and 767s were purchased outright, and that most of the 777s were also purchased outright.

The leasing is a more recent phenomenon with the advent of the 777-300ERs?

[JordanD]

Maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify, but weren’t the leased 777-300ERs arranged by Boeing as part of the package given to BA for the delay of 787s? This deal being for 2 77Ws being bought ‘at discount’ and better terms of head leasing for the rest?

Separately, DoS: you state that you have issues with the longhaul BA cabins being varied, but I seem to remember you being very positive about Emirates – who are known to have a multitude of different cabin configurations and types across their fleet. I’m interested in how you square the two views away – negative about cabin variation with BA and positive with EK.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Jordan

I like EY, not EK, who are a bit of a shower IMHO.

Also, I’m okay on BA long haul, as I travel NCW on the 747/777. Short haul is variable, though.

[rferguson]

Things are very fluid in the airline industry, especially in these lean times.

For example, the 767’s weren’t refreshed years ago because they should have been gone from the fleet about two years ago! If the plans of seven years ago still stood that is exactly what should have happened.

But alas, now the tune has changed and the 767 is to remain part of the fleet for some time to come.

Much of this is down to the HUGE delays in the launh of the 787, which is due to replace the 767 on a 1-for-1 basis. In fact, boeing is paying for the refreshing of the 767’s as part compensation for the delays.

As for the progression of the fitting of new products on BA aircraft. I don’t by any means think that AVOD or the hard product on most of the 747’s or 777’s is by anyway out of date. Yes, the IFE isn’t as cutting edge as say Emirate or Singapore. But it is still competitive. What ISN’T is the non-AVOD IFE with the tiny screens on the 18 GMIS 777’s. Hence these have been singled out for the cabin re-furb including Thales IFE.

An important area where BA DOES have consistency across its entire long haul fleet is a fully flat bed in Business Class to every long haul destination. Not many airlines with large fleets can claim this consistency. While Club World certainly doesn’t have the bells and whistles of some carriers J class offerings, the flat bed is still its biggest selling point.

BA also changed tack with the installation of New First. Years ago when they launched Next Generation CW they got a bee in their bonnet about installing the product as quicly as possible. So they started fitting it left right and centre on aircraft. But alas there were technical problems with the product, and in the long run the installation had to be slowed down significantly to fix the original new cabins that had been installed and to try find out how to resolve the niggles.

Fast forward New first. Only two 747’s would be fitted with the new product. These two aircraft would fly for three months so any issues could be highlighted early on and recified. After the three month period a 777 would receive New First and go through the same process.

On short haul I completely agree. Those space saver seats are a disgrace for CE especially when on ‘longer’ hops.

[Author]

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