[Hess963]

..I just have waited that our typical VK who is full of BA stereotypes will be commenting “grandly” over the new Prem Y of ANZ..Well, that means you are not flying with ANZ ,isn’t? Afraid to be a hobbled pax being stretched out–good…just leave those who like flying with ANZ and enjoy the great service ANZ delivers which BA has not reached till today ! Best in all classes comparing to BA ! It is sad that BA haven’t considered in improving Economy cabin at all. WTP is comparing to the new ANZ’s wider seats and the great Business Class meals and beverages absolutely mediocre and more an Economy Class than a
a Premium Economy( just forget to do some homeworks like fellow Qantas–I supposed ..?)

But perhaps you will not fly ANZ ’cause you won’t get your typical BA shareholder discounts–well lucky for those who can pay the full price !

ANZ has at least the courage and view for innovations and considering their customers’ suggestions–” the so called world’s favourite airline” has in th past only ears for a small group of BA elite travellers and definitely ignoring the mass of Economy pax. That’s why those pax are preferring to fly with ANZ and other airlines beside BA .

There is one thing BA can learn from this new approach of ANZ–BA you should be doing your homeworks and from time to time try and read and evaluate rightly what your Economy and Premium Economy pax wants–not only the comments of mostly upgraded BA Exec Club silver or gold card holders who are normally happy to be upgraded and really oversees faults in such flights as they wouldn’t want to be ungrateful, aren’t they? This goes to those who are grandly being bumped to Club World as well….

[Hess963]

…BA should be courageous and should give those questionnaires to the mass of Economy pax–than BA could see what those people really think of its Eco and Prem Eco cabins. But in reality–the CSD mostly give those questionnaires to BA Exec Club gold and silver holders on board…
BA should take the time and opportunity to refurbish Economy and WTP after all this mayhem with the First Class cabin. Perhaps here BA could score again grandly like in the good old times…with great seats and services …hmm, if that time has already arrived and enjoying it in a BA cabin..that would be really great !

[NTarrant]

Hello Hess, clearly you are well! Sorry my friend but this is a thread about ANZ not BA. As I said earlier ANZ does provide a very good service but I would say that they are an equal match to BA. Where ANZ has the edge on BA IMHO is the IFE, even in economy. As for the questionaires, I know a number of perople who have travelled economy and received them and they are not Gold and Silver Exec holders. My wife is Blue and has received one on many occasions and when my PA and I used to have to travel SOU-MAN in BA days she got one and she had no exec card.

Getting back to ANZ the economy beds at 1.56m would not be for me even if I wanted it as my feet would end up in the aisle. So don’t knock VK for his comment there, he is right.

Cheers and hope you are sipping that red wine!!

[Cedric_Statherby]

US railways worked out 90 years ago how to pack passengers into their long distance economy class coaches and give them all a bed and a bit of privacy to boot.

It would be interesting to know how much space they allowed per passenger compared with ANZ’s new offering. One big difference is that on the railways one has bunk beds – two or even three layers of sleeping passengers per 6 foot floor space.

[MarcusUK]

Don’t forget that Lufthansa was making an offering not so long ago, for the Economy Bunk beds!
We have gone forwards, & sidewards in the cabin, why not upwards now?!

I applaud ANZ, in these stale Industry times, especially when several Airlines appear all spin, to mask cuts & glorify failing travel experiences. It sounds like 10 Downing Street these days…
For a relatively small Airline, with a specific corner of the world as a base, It really does span the globe, & has a remarkable unmoving reputation over many years. No doubt, their fresh & innovative approach, will keep them there much longer after other Airlines have dealt with their liabilities, & down-sized, along with their share price & Financial liabilities.

I would be very interested to see those on BT, expressing the regular pro one Airline banter, actually did pay for their own seats ever?
The loudest & most pretentious in the lounges are usually the obnoxious who have little work status, never pay for their own tickets, & more wanna-be’s that actual Are’s.

Perhaps BT should make a survey of the frequent travellers on here…and see who spends their own money in leisure time, not paid for buy others, & travels Premium classes?

[cbroo79]

ANZ sets the standard again! What a great idea and improvement over any other carriers’ offering.

This will be a hit!

[Inquisitive]

Of late the BT forum writers discussing only the virtue (or not) of BA and try to find faults with most other airlines. Over the last 10 years, there is hardly any innovation by BA, whereas there are many innovation by quite a number of airlines. Each innovation is liked by a certain segments of passengers. I find the ANZ innovation is quite good – one shall refrain from negative comments without first experiencing it first.

[VintageKrug]

There is no doubt this is innovative stuff from Air NZ, and its commendable that they are trying something different. But I am not convinced it will actually improve the experience for passengers, especially when the increased cost of tickets is taken into account.

The three rows as a bed concept is impractical for all but the shortest pax, and will result in tighter seats for all other in economy.

The PE product does look great, but has a slide forward rather than proper recline, which has been criticised by regular Cathay travellers as uncomfortable.

The Business Class seat (a Virgin Atlantic licenced knock-off) is still clunky as you need to get out of your reclined seat to switch into bed mode.

Especially considering BAs size, it has a long reputation for innovation, and I would say that 2009 was actually one of BA’s most innovative years.

Far from there being “hardly any innovation at BA over the past ten years”, here is an (incomplete) list of worthy examples:

2000

– Introduction of World Traveller Plus Cabin, fleetwide (the first four class airline)

– Introduction of longhaul Club World flat beds, fleetwide

– Introduction of shorthaul Club Europe convertible seating, fleetwide

– Introduction of onbusiness corporate rewards scheme (the first such scheme of its type)

2001

– £14m upgrade to Concorde interior

– total redesign of T4 “Lounge Pavilion” First and Concorde Room (the latter by Terence Conran)

– ba.com becomes functional for online e-ticketing

– Investment of £17m in Concorde safety improvements sees her return to flight

– British Airways won the prestigious Grand Prix Award for International Design Effectiveness for the new Club World seat which turned into a six-foot fully flat bed. The award was given in recognition of how the product had revolutionised business travel. The seat also won the best consumer product award.

2002

– removal of Saturday night stay restriction on most European fares

– further A321 orders for shorthaul

2003

– Connexion on board internet trialled on a BA 747

2004

– launch of codeshares across the pond with AA

– WiFi available in all BA Terraces lounges globally

2005

– carbon offsetting introduced as an option for customers

2006

– noise cancelling headphones in Club World

– Raid the larder in Club and Tuck Box introduced in World Traveller/WT+

– light touch Club World cabin refresh, with softer cushioning and newly designed interior

2007

– AVOD Video on demand rolled out in all classes

– Worldwide “Galleries” Lounge concept premieres in Brussels

– BA announced their biggest $8billion order since 1998 by ordering 36 new long-haul aircraft. 12 A380s with options on a further seven, and 24 Boeing 787s with options on a further 18.

2008

– Terminal 5 opens, with a £100m investment in BA Lounges

– http://www.newclubworld.com installed on all 57 747s

– ba.com online functionality now available in 11 languages

– Open Skies airline subsidiary launched between Paris and New York

– BA mobile check in launched at BA2go.com

2009

– Club World London City, the first scheduled transatlantic A318, launched

– New services to Las Vegas, Maldives, Punta Cana, Sharm El Sheikh

– New 777 and airbus shorthaul fleet deliveries continue

– BAEC Sale Offer: All redemptions made 50% off for the first time ever

– T5B Gallleries and Elemis Spa open

– BA opens brand new First and Galleries lounges in T3, and new lounge facilities in Mumbai

– Winner of 2009 Globe Travel Award for Innovation (Travel Weekly/Associated Newspapers)

2010

– First redesign launched at http://www.ba.com/first

[cbroo79]

Vintage Krug:
I agree many innovations by BA over the years, however at the same time BA’s lack of maintenance -experienced first hand- resulting in broken down chairs, VOD that does not work on flights from Oz to LHR and many more annoying issues combined with an ever decline in motivation of it’s cabin crew (resulting in a severe decline in customer service) make them no longer a premier airline. Further, the service at T5 and the attitude of ground staff there is one of the worst for a major transit hub from what I have experienced. In short I try to avoid BA whenever I can based on a string of bad experience.

[FlyingChinaman]

VK,

The type of passengers who would find the planned ANZ new economy class fold-down “berths” beneficial and ENJOYABLE are the likes of Tattoo (Herve Villechize), the midget assistant of Mr Roarke of the popular TV series “Fantasy Island”

I never make fun of the others but rather a pragmatic comparasion!

[cityprofessional]

VK must be the only person who thinks that wifi, buying a 777 or flying to Las Vegas are innovations. BA has had ONE true innovation in the past decade and that was Club World – nothing else they have done on any kind of scale is remotely groundbreaking

Back on topic, you may not like these NZ designs and, haha, we may joke they are not great for tall people or non-intimate couples, but you cannot deny they are innovative. And it’s been said before (but clearly the poster has not noticed), the NZ PE seat can hardly be compared with the CX Y seat, given that it’s 50% wider and 25% longer… Cos, like, ohmigod, I can’t believe BA has fixed shell seats in New First and LCY Club when regular CX travellers don’t think they are very comfortable in Y…

[Hess963]

Hi everyone !!

are we talking about innovations of Economy seats or BA Club World or Premium Class amenities or developments in this thread?

ANZ’s Economy Class has improved, redefined itself and evolved for a more flexible choice of paxs’ wishes. Whether your small, tall, skinny or fat. More import ANZ gives you as Y pax the freedom to choose how many seats you want to occupy in Y class, of course for a certain amount of surcharges. Lets face some BA die hard fans out there–whojust can’t stand that airlines like ANZ has the courage and spirit to be innovated in Y cabin while others just ignored Y cabin completely. That ANZ has just been the first to implement it and not just talkings like LH with its full flat bunks in Y cabin. It is up to the airlines how they improved their products and when they do this–but do not forget to miss your call–otherwise the pax just moved on and the airlines who fail to come along are just left behind.

[FlyingChinaman]

Hess963

You are spot on with ANZ having the vision and leading the aiirline industry by offering inovative economy class seating products, in either PE or the lie-flat seats.

I have flown on every type of seats in all classes around the world and not being snobbish about travelling in economy class sometime.

I am completely supportive of this trend. I do not favour any airlines including my defecto “flag carrier” Cathay Pacific.

I still maintain my earlier comment as to the real benefit to the majority of the economy class passengers who select to pay for this additional enhancement feature. I am average 1.7m (5’7″) in height and can not see myself being completely comfortable when lying on a surface of less than 1.6m, that is subtracting at least 3-4cm off for the pillow space. Curling up for a long period in that position is not relaxing, especially fearing having one’s feet getting chopped off by a moving trolly!

This discussion is all about comfort level here at afordable prices.
.
Shorter people or smaller children might find the facility adequate for space, not 6-footers!

I wish ANZ all the sucesses with the launch of their new economy class products and by giving economy class passengers more choices but doubtful if any airlines can extract huge profits from the economy class service as we all know too well that the premium front cabins are really the cash cow for all airlines!

However as the business travel spending pattern is changing rapidly world-wide there is no sign of any revival. Other air carriers might have no choice but to chase after this “new money” in the future!

[ScottWilson]

The last significant innovations in Y have been:

– Fixed shell seats (CX – notwithstanding criticism of the seat);
– At seat IFE, particular AVOD (SQ).

You struggle to ever see innovation in Y from European carriers.

NZ have innovated in both Y and PE this time, but I think comparing the new PE to CX Y fixed shell seats is as valid as comparing it to BA Club World – which is also a seat that reclines forward in a shell.

BA’s real innovations (as in a leap forward for passenger cabins that no other airline did first) are in the past decade:
– WT+ (now looking a bit tired);
– New Club World (NGCW is nice, but others rival it easily enough).
I like BA a lot, but none of the others listed by VK meet the definition of “innovation”, more improvement (and I could throw together a list about as long that NZ has engaged in, from Space + on domestic and tasman routes, notwithstanding that short haul business class on NZ and QF both outdo any European carrier by a long shot with the comprehensive rip off that is “same seats more food and empty seat beside you”.)

Speculation about the price of NZ Y Skycouch and PE is just that. NZ will face price pressure in PE especially when/if CX and MH roll out their products. QF has only relatively recently introduced PE on AKL-LAX.

[BusinessTraveller]

We’ve just published an extensive interview with Ed Sims, ANZ’s group general manager international airlines, about the launch of its new Skycouch seating in economy, and the controversial decision to move to a 3-4-3 layout. This can be read at:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/focus-air-new-zealands-skycouch

[Author]

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