ANZ flat beds in economy

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 53 total)

  • MarcusUK
    Participant

    Indeed, all looks very refreshing, innovative.
    For once, concentrating on something for the benefit of the traveller, rather than purely seen to rake in extra cash for some failing Airlines.

    Business travel has changed. We all know this, see it, feel it on BT.

    Airlines need to be in step with this, not with the recent imposing of changes, that are felt strongly by the traveller (Food, luggage allowance, Seat allocations, FFP benefits etc).
    Like any business approach, you lose loyalty if you don’t inform, involve, & communicate management of change, as in any large Organisation.
    ANZ Have the teams to bring creativity a-new, cutting edge,Unique, not easy in the mass of concepts in the Airline Industry today.
    This is a reflection of listening to customer responses, monitoring the market correctly & responding to it, & sincerely trying to offer a better quality of experience of travel.

    This is a very effective strategy, of securing their customer base, through a unique, high quality travel experience. In this way they will have greater demand for their services.
    The “strategies” of some airlines, clearly have put at great risk their customer base, loyalty, & financial future. It is not with short term gain/ Instant Financial gratification changes, as carried out by BA.
    Cramming more of us in on an Aircraft, cutting the services & facilities, & charging more, will NOT work. I for one, am avoiding such airlines, my loyalty & business will remain with those operating ethically, & fairly to us as Travellers.

    This is a huge sector where choice is abundant. Such an Airline deserves to fly without their seats being unoccupied, even if they fit less people in, the Load factors will be much higher. A very sensible & fair business strategy.
    Congratulations to ANZ…its just a pity you are not the UK’s National Airline…then we would have something to be very proud of!


    FrequentTraveller
    Participant

    On a few occasions I have been lucky enough to be travelling on a lightly loaded flight and managed to obtain three joining economy seats to myself. With the arm rests flipped up I was able to get a good sleep, even though the seats cushions where not specifically designed for this lying position. A few blankets helped to improve the comfort in the area under the arm rests.

    After the first time this happened I worked out purchasing three discounted economy seats was considerably cheaper than buying one business class seat. This was many years ago, not during a recession, so discounted business class seats were not so easily available. Although very tempted, I have never tried to make a booking for three economy as I feared there could be problems at check-in and boarding. Ensuring the airline would honour the second and third seat when there is only one person travelling. Would their computer system think the second and third seats are for a no show passengers and if the flight was over booked allocate them to other people? Or just as bad not keep the three seats reserved next to each other?

    It is great to see ANZ expand on this concept. However, any airline which could solve the concerns I have previously mentioned and honour three seat seats together for a single traveller, would gain my interest. Even with the current seat and without a continuous cushion. Obviously, this would only work where the seat arm rests flip up. i.e. Not in BA World Traveller plus which has fixed arm rests.

    Other considerations:
    1) If I bought three seats and actually flew then could I claim for triple miles and tier points. Probably not.
    2) I would probably be entitled to pay less UK passenger departure tax too. I doubt the computers could cope with that either.


    continentalclub
    Participant

    It’s perhaps worth clarifying that Air New Zealand will be moving to ten-abreast in Y on these new aircraft (from the current nine on their existing 777s), with a seat pitch an inch less than that enjoyed by Pacific Economy passengers on their current 744s (though an inch more than their 777s).

    For the up to 180 Y passengers who are not seated on Skycouches therefore, and for those who are seated in Skycouch seats but who have not paid the supplement, this is arguably a significantly retrograde development in terms of personal space.

    The increased space-take of PE has got to be paid back from somewhere – and that’s Y pitch and width in this case.

    The upgrades to IFE screens, connectivity etc in Y will mitigate the impact somewhat, of course – but NZ’s Y seat pitch has long been the foundation of much of its leisure-market communications, so a new promotional strategy will be required. Perhaps, of course, it’s hoped that the noise created by Skycouch will take up the space once occupied by the 34″ message.


    PaulJennings
    Participant

    Agreed with the above. But economy is all about economy. Cheap is more important than comfortable. Customers that won’t pay a £500 premium for a flat bed often won’t pay a £20 premium to have 34 inches rather than 32. Commercially, airlines have to make economy cheaper rather than better.

    Premium classes have to be made better rather than cheaper (flat beds etc.). This creates a bigger and bigger gap between the two both in terms of price and comfort – hence the filling of the gap by new products such as premium economy, extra legroom seats and, now, impromptu sofas.

    Airlines won’t like issuing ’empty seat tickets’.But it would be the simplest thing in the world (and therefore inordinately difficult) to enable a passenger to ‘block’ a seat at booking or OLCI, for a fee of course.


    continentalclub
    Participant

    MichelAngelo: you’re absolutely right about Economy being all about economy. It’s remarkable how many (particularly but not exclusively) leisure passengers willingly go for a £20/2.5% round-trip saving but lumber themselves with a 7 hour or 9 hour connection that they only regret when it’s too late.

    Lots of them, of course, are on once-in-a-lifetime trips when the Antipodes are involved, and the chances of them making another trip like that in the short term are limited – though admittedly growing as the years pass and propensity to travel grows – so repeat custom, recommendation and referral is less of an issue/risk.

    The snag for NZ in this market is, and has always been, that it can’t compete with the cost base of the Asian and Mid East carriers to Asia and points West and, to a certain extent, with the US ones going the other way. Their lower-cost, outsourced Zeal crews only operate A320s, not long haul. So, accepting that their fares were always going to be higher in Y than MH, TG, EK and even SQ and CX, they went down the route of a clear differentiator with 34″ pitch.

    This then marks quite a significant change for them – perhaps the way that they’ve crunched the numbers apes BA’s model slightly more, and majors on premium yields to support effectively subsidised Y fares.

    I still think that the Skycouch is PR-spin and little more though. TV3 in NZ are reporting a likely fare of 7000NZD (3000GBP) AKL-LHR for a couple. That’s 1500GBP each, when EK are selling Y at 687GBP and CX at 699GBP this year.

    I wish NZ well, and I’m really impressed by the potential of the PE cabin in particular, but were I a shareholder I’d seriously question any significant revenue forecasts being pinned on Skycouch.


    AndrewGough
    Member

    Hi everyone, and greetings from sunny Auckland.

    To answer the query about seatbelts, here’s what ANZ said:

    “The ‘normal’ seatbelts on the seat have been made slightly longer to allow the flexibility for someone to use them while they are lying down. When a second person is also lying down beside them, then they would be given a standard extension seat belt to loop through the first person’s belt similar to how infants are dealt with today.

    “Provided the passengers use it in this way there is no reason to wake them for turbulence.”

    Also, picking up on another point raised, the B777-300ER economy seats are actually narrower than on the B777-200ER, at 17″ rather than 17.8″. ANZ has also slimmed down the aisles in the EC cabin, allowing it to squeeze in a 3-4-3 configuration on the new plane, as opposed to the 777-2’s 3-3-3.


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    PE seats 2-2.5 x price of economy on various routes, Airlines that have this cabin.
    LHR Sydney for eg, £500-800 Y, PE from £1,150+, & business (was in Sept with SQ) £1,900, but now more around £3,200+.

    Many Business cabins are taken up at the moment on Long Haul down to Australia, by personal travellers, those who pay for their own tickets. You would be surprised how many travel regularly, & pay out more, but not the full business class fares. Its not the once only Antipodean trippers!

    I travel to Australia twice a year, as well as 30 flights + in Europe, then there are the medium haul trips both leisure & business.
    After all, it is the Business sector that has restricted spending of their staff, not the premium leisure travellers who are paying more…hence the meeting of both, fuellng more interest in PE options.

    Clearly for ANZ, pricing will be crucial, if the value is more then PE, even lying down for a while in part of the converted cabin, your services & seat are probably better value in PE.
    Lucky with ANZ, that they have Long haul sectors worldwide, sot his would work for their geographical location, & routes.
    I don’t think this particular model, would work for other Airlines, on various routes.

    But ,all speed to them for change & trying something new, its very refreshing in these troubled times when all else seems to be being restricted or part cut, to see innovation.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    The SkyCouch is PR spin – nothing more than three economy seats (only slightly more than four feet long…) and a blanket and none of the other plusses of a premium experience, either on the ground or in the crowded cabin.

    The salient issue here will resolve around the cost charged for the genuinely impressive PE offering; until this is explicit, it is hard to say whether this innovation is a genuine improvement for travellers; if it justs costs more then there is very little amelioration in true value.

    Personally, I am not convinced by the “doesn’t recline, just slides forward” shell concept seats; several colleagues have endured Cathay in the boot, and have vowed no=ever to do so again. Poor lambs.

    Notwithstanding the above, I still believe that for *most* Air New Zealand economy travellers, this will be a retrograde step.

    The new economy seats are actually a whole inch narrower than on the B777-200ER, at 17″ rather than 17.8″. The usual 34″ pitch which was always a selling point of ANZ is also being reduced.

    17″ width for extra-longhaul is tight by anyone’s measure.

    ANZ has also slimmed down the aisles allowing it to squeeze in a 3-4-3 configuration on the new plane, as opposed to the 777-2’s 3-3-3.

    It is indeed nice to see innovation, but let’s not kid ourselves that there is not a revenue maximisation motivation at the heart of this move.


    cityprofessional
    Participant

    Gosh, that is a harsh review, VintageKrug…

    Firstly, of course this is PR spin and revenue maximisation is a primary motivation, but this is an innovation nonetheless, and full credit to NZ for trying to think outside of the box. Economy is also a clearly superior product vs other airlines, and is not a retrograde step vs NZ’s existing the 772. Yes, width has gone from 17.8 to 17, but pitch is up from 32 to 33, and compares favourably with BA/VS/KL’s 31 and QF’s 32

    There are also clear improvements to the (already pretty nice) soft product – not to suggest that food ordering on demand, for example, is not a premium proposition would be churlish (especially when BA sneers at you when you request dine on demand, even in First)

    As for shell seats in PE, is it really fair to compare with CX’s 32″ Y class seat? With an effective pitch of 40″ due to the herringbone configuration, surely it is closer to a business lite offering? And with 2-2-2 seating it is light years ahead of any of the current PE offerings by BA/VS/QF/AF/NH and the like


    ScottWilson
    Participant

    VK: Well if any airline didn’t engage in revenue maximisation it would be failing to fit its true purpose. After all what are LCCs about, what is the demise of UK domestic business class about and why do both BA and VS have long haul economy class seat pitch that makes NZ look generous?

    Do you expect economy class to be anything other than economy? What other carrier in economy class offers anything remotely similar for couples to have a small flat surface to lie across? Yes I’m first to criticise NZ for going 3-4-3 in a 777, but we are talking less than an inch in width. BA, VS, UA, LH and indeed most major carriers in economy have seat pitch in long haul the same as they have for short haul. Only some Asian carriers can rival NZ in economy.

    In premium economy NZ is only outshone by BMI, which will soon be giving up the A330s. NZ’s premium economy catering already outshines all others by a mile (BA gives the vile economy food and VS barely better). 2-2-2 beats 2-4-2 on BA in 777s anyday.

    Hard shells that seats recline within are a feature of virtually all business and first class products today, can’t quite see why it is a problem in premium economy.

    The catering will be leaps and bounds ahead of all others in business premier, only rivalled by Austrian, which has an inferior hard product. Freshly cooked food outdoes the reheating we see in others.

    So yes, NZ has successfully created a lot of spin. Every airline does for new products. AA’s new business class was running to catch up with the middle of the pack, and BA’s new First is a great enhancement but by no means seriously rivals SQ, CX, EK (A380), EY or LX.

    I’m unhappy NZ is squeezing in another in Y, but then who besides those of us who follow this sort of thing avidly, knows or bothers? Neither VS nor BA have seen any advantage in increasing seat pitch in economy, because most economy travellers care about price, and then have an impression of how good or bad airline service is (although IFE matters). Airlines rarely sell economy class on seat pitch and width, and only a small number of customers bother researching or give a damn. Those in the front cabins are different, because quality of product is at least as important. Those customers make tradeoffs on fare and quality. What NZ has done is give this option to couples in economy as well.


    continentalclub
    Participant

    It seems that I might be out of step with at least one member of NZ crew’s view on the new uniform!

    The NZ Dominion Post:

    http://bit.ly/6SkkLE

    And the slightly more sensational UK Daily Mail:

    http://bit.ly/5VAgMh

    It does seem notable that response to the new seats (particularly Y) on NZ message boards, and even on FlyerTalk, is fairly muted. As is almost always the case, the national airline’s reputation overseas is considerably better than it is amongst those who are presented with less choice but to fly it…..


    giramondo
    Participant

    Unfortunately not all the readers (like me) can afford a fancy Y seat so I have checked directly with Air New Zealand if it was true that the new 777 will have 3-4-3 configuration and I was told NO, it will remain 3-3-3.


    continentalclub
    Participant

    giramondo: I’m afraid that you’ve been given incorrect information there. The new configuration is absolutely 3-4-3, as this photo from the launch shows clearly:

    http://bit.ly/csnMWv

    Regarding the length of the Skycouch (ie: the three seats sold together in economy), Air New Zealand has informed us that this is 1.56 metres.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    Let’s hope the Cabin Crew don’t have Kathy Bates-style proclivities while wheeling the trolley down the (even narrower) aisles, or there could be a few hobbled passengers being stretchered off Air NZ flights.

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