[Anonymous]

[Ithakis]

Travelers who are interested in collecting miles and status points with Sky Team would be wise to check whether their airline will actually grant them. I recently learned (following a round trip from Europe to Mexico) that for some of its economy fairs, Air France is not crediting the segment and is vastly reducing the number of miles credited. If your company, like mine, has its eye firmly on the bottom line-beware. Air France is offering an economy fair and then punishing you for taking it. A great way to inspire loyalty!

[craigwatson]

Thats not really fair to AF. Most airlines dont offer miles on some promotional and/or discounted booking classes. It’s up to you to make sure the booking class you choose can accrue miles, and if you didnt check then its your fault not the airlines.

It’s like everything in life, you get what you pay for, go for the cheapest and it is invariably the most restrictive in terms of conditions and mileage accrual

[Ithakis]

Part of my problem is that the policy changed with no notification. According to Czech Airlines (from whom I have the card) this policy changed around 6 months ago. Some airlines within Sky Team differentiate between fairs, others, like Air Mexico and Czech, do not. So some kind of general policy would be nice.
I would concede that some reduction in miles might be appropriate for the cheaper fairs, but not even the segment? I think that is going too far.
I merely comment on it as an interesting strategy. Not all companies can afford the luxury of Business Class for all employees. Whereas in the past I would have preferred AF to keep my Frequent flier status, now I really have no incentive. I am just curious about the decision, nothing more.

[craigwatson]

I have never heard of any airline not having a fare differential. just did a quick check on aero mexico, and it quite cleary states that mile accumulation id dependant on booking class

Here is a copy taken from there site directly

The minimum accumulation is 1,000 Premier Kilometers, even for flights of shorter distances, except for Air Europe, Copa Airlines, China Southern, Kenya Airways, KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, Continental Airlines, Northwest Airlines and LAN, for which the minimum accumulation is 800 Premier Kilometers (or the equivalent in Premier Miles), even for flights covering shorter distances.

The accumulation table will be applied in accordance with the airline code appearing on the ticket issued.
In the case of accumulations of 125%, 150% and 200% respectively, it will be valid only on payment of the full fare for the specified Classes. With Aeromexico it applies for the “J” fare (Julieta, full Clase Premier fare) or “A” (Alfa, special Clase Premier fare).

*The accumulation will only be 40% when paying the “M” and “G” fares.
**Depending on the fare paid: in Business Class only paying “J” fare = 200%,
“C” fare = 150%, “D” fare = 125%; in Tourist Class only paying “Y” fare = 200%, “S” fare = 150%, “B” fare = 125%, “M” fare = 125%, “H” fare = 125%, “K” fare = 100%, “V” fare = 100%, “T” fare = 100%, “Q” fare = 100%, “W” fare = 100%, “L” fare = 100%, “G” fare = 50%, “N” fare = 50%, “U” fare = 25%.
***With El Al it only applies on the following routes: MAD-TLV-MAD, CDG-TLV-CDG, MIA-TLV-MIA and JFK-TLV-JFK.
****The accumulation will only be 50% when paying the following fares: “V”, “N”, “S”, “G”, and “W”.
*****Depending on the fare paid: in Business Class only paying: “J”,”A” and “D” fares =150%, in Tourist Class only paying:”Y”,”B”,”M”,”S”,”K”,”Q”,”N”,”H” fares = 100%; “T”,”L”,”V” fares = 50%
******125% only applies when flying Tourist Class and paying fare “W”.
Tables for Redeeming Kilometers for Boletos Benificio on SkyTeam™ Airlines.

The Caribbean: Haiti, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Aruba, Antigua, Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Guadalupe, Jamaica, Martinique, St. Martin, U.S. Virgin Islands.

Central America: Guatemala, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama.

South America 1: Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and French Guyana.

South America 2: Chile, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay

North Africa: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt.

Israel, Middle East: Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.

Africa: All other countries except Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt.

North Asia: Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Eastern Russia and China (except Hong Kong)

Southeast Asia: Hong Kong, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam

Southwest Asia: India, Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific: Australia, New Zealand and French Polynesia.

[Ithakis]

I was relying on information provided by what I believed to be a reliable source. I thank you for the details and stand corrected.
As I said, I will concede to differentiating the number of miles according to fare basis. I think the non crediting of segments is too much. Whatever fare was paid to AF could have been paid to another company. In this case I chose AF between two close price offers, because I wished to keep my frequent flier status. My basic point remains that I no longer have this incentive in what, for airlines, is a highly competitive market, and I merely wonder at the logic.
However, if this is the worst that happens on my travels, I shall consider myself lucky.

[O.C.D.P]

Ithakis

The logic from Air France is pretty simple, airlines make next to nothing on economy fares, even full Y class tickets, so there is no incentive for them to reward passengers with miles/rewards and potential upgrades who dont contribute in a major way to their bottom line (most airlines would struggle to make even close to triple figures on a full Y class let alone a restricted ticket).
To put it bluntly airlines are not overly concerned about the loyalty of economy class passengers (within reason – im not saying they dont want your business at all) but they rightly focus the rewards on the passengers who contribute the most.

[Ithakis]

Thank you for your thoughts. Surely the point of a many tiered rewards system (eg silver-gold platinum) is the airlines’ response to the point you make? I am not suggesting that everyone gets the same benefits. I know I am never going to make the platinum grade: I don’t/can’t contribute that much. However, given the current economic climate, with many companies having to cut their travel budgets and increasingly useconomy fares, especially on the shorter haul flights, should economy passenger loyalty be such a low priority as you suggest? I repeat, that money could go elsewhere. I know several colleagues from other companies who regularly use budget airlines, for example. I have also noted that on most European flights I have used recently business class is almost always empty or nearly empty.

[craigwatson]

The problem with your logic is that where would they go? sure they could go to another airline, but then they also wont offer points. its an industry wide policy ( alhough there are some exceptions)

[craigwatson]

to be fair i dont think there is any loyalty in regards to economy, people just want the cheapest. if its cheap but doesnt accrue miles or the competitor is slightly more expensive but offers miles, in regards to economy most economy travellers would choose the cheaper option.

[Ithakis]

I agree. That is exactly my point. The whole ‘loyalty’ concept disappears in that miles and status points will no longer be a factor in the decision making process. As I have already mentioned in the example I offered, I made a conscious decision to favour a company I have a frequent flier card for over one for which I do not (despite the fact that the ticket I chose was marginally more expensive). In future this will not be a factor regarding this specific airline.

[O.C.D.P]

‘given the current economic climate, with many companies having to cut their travel budgets and increasingly useconomy fares, especially on the shorter haul flights, should economy passenger loyalty be such a low priority as you suggest?’

I would suggest yes, in these current economic times, the airlines have less rewards to throw around as they do in the good times, and it makes far better commercial sense to weight the distribution of those rewards in the favour of premium passengers.

In an ideal world im sure airlines would like to reward the loyalty of all their regular passengers handsomely but the bottom line is that it is not financially viable.

[Ithakis]

I take your point about airlines needing to remain viable, and I would that loyalty programmes can generate income with remarkably little outlay. Please note that what bothered me most is AFs refusal to credit me with the segment. This means that it is theoretically possible to take AF flights every week for a year and not achieve frequent flier status.
At the first level of FF status the rewards given are essentially cost free and mostly involve getting to the front of queues-something I am sure you will understand the value of. Even the occasional upgrade (I have been a FF with Sky Team for 3 years and have only been upgraded 3 times) is no real extra cost as the seat would otherwise have been empty and now you have filled it with a very happy and increasingly loyal traveler.
It is arguable that since business and premium passengers get these benefits with their ticket anyway, they are actually less likely to find loyalty cards an incentive.

[O.C.D.P]

I accept your points with benefits that are ‘free’ certainly, but the key question now would be after your 3 upgrades in 3 years have you gone on to purchase a premium ticket with the airline? I dont not intend that to be a rude question but use it to highlight a point that if you havent, then those upgrades may well have cost the airline, as you continue to travel on tickets providing very low yields in economy with the main incentive to airlines to provide upgrades to the premium cabins being to reward those people who yes are loyal to them but who provide them with the biggest margins.
i.e if 1 pax takes 20 return flights in economy with an airline on tickets that yield £50 a go, bringing in £1000, and another takes just 4 return flights yielding £500 a go, bringing in £2000, then the airline will always favour the latter even if that passenger is flying 40 sectors with a rival as there is always the chance they will ‘defect’.

[Ithakis]

Your question is fair and logical and I am afraid the answer is ‘no’ as our policy does not allow it. In truth, although it is nice to be upgraded (and, by the way, this has happened also on another airline that I don’t have a card for, as they wanted to make room for standby passengers) I do not demand an upgrade. I pay for economy – fair is fair. My point is that by denying me the segment and through this possibly my first level FF status next year, AF has damaged our relationship over something which, I repeat, would have cost them nothing. As an individual I work on the ‘every little helps’ principle and I find it hard to understand why they don’t do the same. However, I am sure they will survive without me.

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