[Anonymous]

[PlusFlyer]

I heard Air France has been forced to defer some of its A380 orders.

They’re retiring the 747s early, and have made 8,000 people redundant.

Since the unsolved A330 crash, they haven’t made an annual profit (six years in a row!).

Is the airline safe?

I want to fly to New York, but if they haven’t got money for new planes, can they be trusted after the crash to maintain the planes properly?

[SergeantMajor]

Did you end up risking it?

Air France is certainly getting smaller, and being forced to downsize. Is their management to blame, I wonder?

[Pierre]

@plusflyer
Wise question..safer to ask before the flight
Better click on any Facetime, Skype or similar, have your chat with your counterpart, skip the flight and enjoy the saved money spending it happily..

[ViajeroUK]

Would imagine that AF/KLM involvement with Alitalia has been a serious drain on profits in last few years, maybe not for much longer?

Flew back from Hong Kong with AF last week, only 2 pax in F, J was approx 90% full. No problems with flight, cabin crew, in flight service (excellent dinner) or lounges at HKG & CDG, smooth connection to UK flight on which an excellent breakfast was served despite short (55mins) journey time, wouldn’t hesitate to use them again.

[BigDog.]

I would also take it with a pinch of salt and consider whether the thread may be posted by a regular BA promoter using a different handle in order to encourage disparaging speculation.

Paris Airshow June 2013 – Airbus saw the second-largest order, from Air France-KLM (EPA:AF), for 25 of its A350-900s, the company’s answer to Boeing’s new carbon-composite Dreamliners, in a $7.2 billion deal that includes an option for 25 additional jets.

http://www.ibtimes.com/2013-paris-air-show-100b-orders-day-three-boeing-wins-ryanair-business-737s-airbus-cinches-deals-air

[AMcWhirter]

Air France is one of the carriers to whom I eluded in a recent news piece who had either cancelled or postponed A380 orders.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/emirates-eyes-11-across-seating-on-a380

But Air France is not alone. Virgin Atlantic has also postponed its A380 deliveries while Lufthansa is believed to have cancelled three A380s it had on order.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lufthansa-cuts-back-a380-order-391342/

Some European carriers are now finding the A380 is too big for their needs in the current economic environment. In the case of Air France, the carrier finds that its high density B777-300ERs can do the same job at less cost.

[JohnHarper]

BigDog +1, amazing how some very infrequent posters are popping up at the moment and being followed up by an incarnation of Krug shortly afterwards.

Perhaps the topic title could be edited please? I think dangerous to fly is not an appropriate header for a topic on the A380 which is what the topic is about even though there is an attempt to hijack it in to a downer on AF – again.

My own experiences of AF longhaul have been excellent and you don’t have to stick to soup and fish to have a decent meal.

[Tom Otley]

I agree, and I am in the process of blocking a number of IP addresses.

If you think you have been unfairly affected, please email me
<a href="mailto:[email protected]“>[email protected]

[JohnHarper]

Thanks Tom. Sorry this has to keep happening but hopefully now things will improve.

[sparkyflier]

It seems this thread was started in order to damage AF, which is not acceptable.

I would like to say, in order to balance things out, that my experiences with them are positive, and have found their cabin crew to be charming and professional, and their ground staff to be the best I have ever come across.

Good luck to them for trying new routes in emerging markets. I suspect/believe it is their European network which is holding them back.

[LetsFlyNow]

The last sentence of the post goes to show how silly the topic is. Seriously, how many carriers have cancelled or postponed orders generally? Probably every single carrier!
The author could have also argued whether BA was safe to fly with a while back as they took long to place orders for new planes. Or whether any airline that hasn’t placed orders for new planes doesn’t have money and so can’t maintain their current ones.

Rubbish post.

[MarcusUK]

As a shareholder and Gold FFP member of KLM / AF, if anyone would tale the time to look at the KLM corporate website, you will see the Company is posting a profit for the last half year, and on track to do the same for the final quarter.

It is going through a major re-structuring, as are IAG, and LH and many other European Airlines. It is now beginning to show benefit. Yes, there will be around 5,000 job cuts, AF regional has become “Hop”, with Easyjet and Ryanair having eaten their way into many airports in France.
They are also near to selling off loss making Cityjet, and what happens to the LCY base and routes no one yet knows. I am sure their is a plan there as yet unrevealed.
Many new Aircraft remain on order and are arriving, but perhaps the A380 is too large for some routes, and with the Asian and Emirate airlines ability to run these aircraft, having taken a part of every European long haul market.

AF/KLM have refused to re-invest in failing Alitalia, in which their equity has dropped from 25% to 11%, which they have just written off.
1 Bn Euros is the debt incurred to the group.

KLM has been making a profit for some time, but this is not shown in any accounts or statistics they publish. Almost all of KLM’s entire fleet has been renewed in the last 5 years, with A350’s for them on the way. they have the most modern fleet of any European carrier, in terms of mixed aircraft, finalising the Fokker 70’s for Embraer’s this winter.

KLM is installing the new Business Class, commented on here as providing more space and facility than BA’s First.
they have seen through many staff suggested innovations, with vast improvements in every aspects of the customer experience, and running of the business.

AF is re-vamping all its classes under the new CEO’s surge to put its products to the top end of the European market, as he announced.
Huge amounts are being invested, so they do not lack capability.
11% of the group is owned by the french Government, so whilst being frugal, they are hardly without resources to fund these improvements.

My shares have gained 40% in a year though i did buy them when they were at a low rate, prior to this reform 2015 plan for the group. They are increasing…

I actually choose not to fly AF after some very poor experiences both long haul and short haul, and can see it is clearly not as efficient as KLM, or run in the same way. the Management styles are completely different.
KLM are expanding their routes and capacity, whilst carefully tailoring their medium haul network.
Partnerships with Kenya Airways, , Jet Airways etc… have been made in the last months. A 10 year agreement with Etihad has also been made by the Group.

http://nieuws.klm.com/en/

…For some facts, rather than speculation.

[MarcusUK]

AF Transform 2015 plan, latest AF only job cuts.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/air-france-unions-agree-voluntary-214116206.html

E 630 Mil. profit in 3rd 1/4, for the AF /KLM group, though KLM been profitable and leaner for some time.
All seems to be working.
Cityjet to sell off, will reduce losses and gain some capital seems very near also…

Still the wondering of the AMS – LCY route future?
It seems BA are increasing their flights at LCY, and also on the Amsterdam routes. Could this be to take advantage of the Cityjet demise at LCY?

[Swissdiver]

The issue is really the size of the A380 combined with the EK’s orders. This aircraft is simply too large and airlines do realise this now. It would be furthermore to know how many A350 orders were driven by A380’s cancellations…

[Author]

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