[Anonymous]

[joannasf]

This was my second attempt at Premium Economy on Air France. The first time I thought it was just ok, but this time it was simply the worst. I had such a horrible flight. I went from San Francisco to Paris, Paris to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Paris and Paris to San Francisco. The flights from Paris to Amsterdam and back had no accomodation for Premium Economy passengers, so I sat cramped up in Economy. Poor….Retruning to San Francisco, the following happened:

1. When asking for champagne I was told that the passengers in Economy had drumk it all. I asked the flight attendant if there was any available anywhere on the plane and she huffed and puffed and went to Business Class to get some.
2. The flight attendant neglected to close the curtains between Economy and our cabin hence allowing all those passengers to tromp through to use our bathroom making it impossible for us to get to use it.
3. My screen wasn’t working so there was no movie for me….eleven hours without any entertainment. When I asked the flight attendant if there was another seat with a working screen he told me that the only ones available were in Business Class and he wasn’t allowed to move me. That’s crap. I used to be a flight attendant and you can move anyone anywhere you think best. I became quite angry and vocal and he simply shrugged his shoulders and said that there was nothing he could do. I was livid.
4. There was NO service. I rang for the flight attendant four times and FINALLY someone showed up. We were fed lunch at 11:30 and dinner at 6:30 with NO service in between. Our menu told us that snacks and ice cream would be available but no one told us when it was served or where to find it.
5. The food was literally ineatable. Simply horrible. They offered some chicken and noodle thing that was unrecognizable….YUK… This was the same food that was served in Economy.
6. The seats are hard as rocks. Very uncomfortable and that stupid little foot rest is nothing more than annoying.

I will NEVER fly Air France again. I was so angry that I actually wrote them a letter. Steer clear of this airlines. SImply horrible….

[Vertrek]

Hi Joannasf,

I have to disagree with you on this one as I had a pleasant flight with them from London to NYC return in Premium.

1. I don’t really drink alcohol in flight, so can’t comment.
2. The FA on my outbound flight were great but on the inbound was ok.
3. During my flight to Paris from NYC, my screen wasn’t working, but they noticed it and restarted it without me having to tell them. I feel you here as I would be frustrated if my IFE isn’t working, but you can’t blame them for not upgrading you just because of this.
4. Snack and Ice cream on my flight were available on the self-service bar.
5. I found the food to be ok, especially for flight from Paris, but yes, an improvement is needed, while for Intra European Flight, as premium you sit in Business Class section and the food served was the Business Class meal which I found really nice. Shamed about the long haul one.
6. I found the seat to be very comfortable and the foot rest in front helps for sleeping.

Also when you were in Paris did you take the advantage of SkyPriority line and the business class lounge?

Safe travel.

[joannasf]

Hello V…

Thanks for all your comments and I am pleased that you didn’t experience what I did. I think if just once one of the flight attendents would have been responsive or customer friendly, I probably wouldn’t have been so upset. I’m a very friendly, accomodating person and for me to be that angry it had to have been pretty bad. I’m an ex-flight attendent so I probably expect good service….it’s doable….
I flew from Paris to Amsterdam and back and I was seated in Economy….again, unacceptable when I paid for Premium Economy…
Oh, and about that SkyPriority, yes I did take advantage of it and it was fine, however the business class lounge was offered me at a cost…$50.00…..opted to pass….

[Vertrek]

Which Business class lounge was it? You are supposed to get in for free in Paris CDG, but yes, in other airports you need to pay. 🙂

And if you are doing a domestic flight in USA with Delta, you need not to pay for your first check-in luggage if you fly AF, KL or DL intercontinentally.

I am actually happy with their service and I am about to book my next long haul flight with them in Premium, too bad KLM doesn’t offer one, would be great if they do. 🙂

Safe travel.

[joannasf]

It was in Paris and to top it off on my trip to Paris last year, Air France upgraded me to Business Class, told me where the lounge was and when I entered the hostess informed me that because I was upgraded I was not allowed to enter free of charge and wanted to charge me $50.00, again I passed.

I want to hear how your next experience is with AF….it’s only a matter of time….happy trails…..j

[Vertrek]

Joanna,

Are you sure? Because, My Friends and I did not have to pay a penny to enter the lounge in CDG, in fact all of the staffs in CDG lounge were really nice and friendly and greeted us with a chocolate when entering it and were full of smile whenever approached. 🙂

Also, how do they know that you were upgraded? As they only checked your boarding pass manually and as long as it indicates you are in First, Business or Premium Economy you should be able to enter it for free. At least that is from my experience. 🙂

Well, perhaps you should complaint about it to AF. 🙂

Safe travel.

[LeTigre]

Vertrek, no matter how good your experiences are, most of us have horrible ones with AF. I would not wish anyone to travel AF Economy, considering that on their 77Ws they squeeze 472 passengers into a space designed for 350 (in three classes). Even Emirates aren’t that shameful.

[spudseamus]

I have only ever flown AF once !! say no more and it was in J —

[Vertrek]

I am talking base on my experiences and I don’t fly economy for long haul as I couldn’t bare taking long haul economy flight. So, I can;t comment.
I am not trying to sell anything here, I am just pointing out the thing that contradicted to my experience, as it wouldn’t be fair for someone talking base on “media” review rather than experience to be taken seriously.
I am just trying to be fair and honest.

LeTigre,

Where do you get the information of 472 seats? The 4 classes AF 77W is only 301 seats (the same as BA 4 classes 77W). You were referring to the 3 classes 77W for caribbean and indian ocean which only consist of 2 rows of J, 4 rows of Premium and the rest are economy hence the 472 seats as this is a “holiday fleet”.

“designed for 350 (in three class not four!)” says who? aircraft configuration is really up to the buyers, If suddenly SQ wants to configure their B77W aircraft to 5 classes of suites, first, business, premium and economy. who are we to judge?

Therefore, LeTigre, if you wanna talk based on research, do it right next time. 🙂

Spudseamus, I understand how you feel, I think we all do have that feeling towards some airlines as I feel the same as well towards BA long-haul.

safe travel everyone.

[LeTigre]

Here’s all the links to check my facts:

http://corporate.airfrance.com/uploads/media/54emeBoeing777_1_.ANG_02.pdf

http://airlineroute.net/2012/03/16/af-s12update4/

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/longer_range/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France

Perhaps the only thing that make you reject hard facts, Vertrek, is a strong bias.

[Vertrek]

from your first link,

http://corporate.airfrance.com/uploads/media/54emeBoeing777_1_.ANG_02.pdf

page 6, the B77W has

8F + 67J + 28PE +200Y what does it equal to? 472?
wow, perhaps you should find a better calculator or get a math course….

I am speaking out of the fact… you don’t even read what you posted, do you?

Speaking out of strong bias? Really? I would say “it takes one to know one” which i am not surprise as it seems you are one of the AF haters, who possibly have never flown with them.

but sorry, no I am not bias, as I speak out of experienced and give both + and – comments. Regarding this matter, i did my research carefully when you said 472 seats in B77W, which logically, can’t be true if AF were to put 4 classes in it.

LeTigre, really, do your research carefully next time. 🙂

safe travel.

[LeTigre]

A quote from page three:
“7 Boeing 777-300Ers (nine in June 2009), seating 472 passengers on flights between
France and its French Overseas Departments, equipped with the Business cabin (14 seats),
Alizé (36 seats) and Voyageur (422 seats).”

So it appears that according to conventional maths (you must be using the prehistoric models) 14+36+422=472 which is quite incredible really.

I concede that the four class aircraft do not have 472 pax in them, but that was a small mistake, which I did not intend to make, but rather wish to emphasise that regardless of configuration, seating 472 in a plane which according to the Boeing link I provided “carries 365 passengers” is unacceptable for the passengers on-board.

The other links I provided supported the fact that AF utilise these aircraft on not just leisure routes, because the GDS shows that Montreal and Miami were among the routes that this configuration of 77W was rostered on for Summer 2012 (ie. now).

As for my personal bias, and being an Air France hater, I will sum up my position here as clearly as possible:

I do not hate Air France
I have travelled on Air France before
I will not ever book on an AF 777 with 3-4-3 in Y because it’s so uncomfortable
I plan to travel in Y on AF’s A380s as soon as possible and have a Dubai trip (tbc) that I intend to use to test their A380 product
I look forward to my next opportunity to travel on Air France either short-haul or on their A380s

Also, my recent posts/comic articles have been critical of airlines including BA and QR (who are Airline of the Year) and a whole host of others. I have had favourable experiences on all the airlines I am most critical of!

[Vertrek]

Evening LeTigre,

“….I would not wish anyone to travel AF Economy, considering that on their 77Ws they squeeze 472 passengers into a space designed for 350 (in three classes)….”

“I would not wish anyone to travel AF Economy”, Would you blame me to say you are an AF hater?

Can I asked you how many 77W does AF have? and out of all of that only 7 are equipped with 472 seats. Why emphasied on that one? While you will most probably ended up in 301 seated plane?

Don’t you think by saying that and focusing on the bad aspect despite of its’ small statistical significant, you are already being bias? At least when I replied I didn’t hide the fact that they have both 301 and 475 seated planes.

Also, If the seat pitch and the leg-rooms are the same as any other B77W aircraft that AF have (with P:32 and W:17), why isn’t it unacceptable? Boeing doesn’t state that it will increase the chance of the aircraft to crash, neither they state that it will caused harm physically and mentally to the passengers, why is it unacceptable?

By the way, 3-4-3 does looked cramped, but it is merely 0.5″ smaller in term of width compared to BA, and despite of that AF seats have 1″ more pitch than BA (W:17.5″ and P: 31″). So, don’t you think it is all psychological?

If you want the truth, I’ve only flown AF once, which was last month with their A380 PE to JFK and return (last monday) as I decided to make 2012 SkyTeam year. In the previous year, 2011, it was Oneworld and the year before, it was Star Alliance.

But the truth is, despite of all of the bad talk about AF/KLM and ST, I found them to be very reliable and much more organised compared to BA/IB and OW.

From then on, I somehow feel angry and stupid to actually believe whatever people say without giving any 2nd thought and I felt ashamed to misjudge AF and ST so early, because I realised most of the non-proffesional report has no hard fact or actual experience and often exaggerated, hence I questioned the truthfulness of the review as it contradicted to my experience.

However, I also do not want to make any assumptions about Joanna’s experience, the thing that raised question marks was the lounge in CDG were asking $50, Paris will never asked for USD but EUR.

Furthermore, when you jumped on your first comment, I googled it to find the truth,; and I have to say you weren’t right to jump and overgeneralised all AF B77W has 475 seats while about 90% of the aircrafts are configured with 301 seats. If I didn’t challenge you, would you tell the actual – majority – configuration?

Now, if you read my comments on this forum, I posted nothing but the truth and the fact and I hide nothing. Compare my comments with yours, who is the bias one? 🙂

Safe Travel,

MD

[LeTigre]

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_France/Air_France_Boeing_777-200_B.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_France/Air_France_Boeing_777-300_B.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_France/Air_France_Boeing_777-300_C.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_France/Air_France_Boeing_777-300_D.php

All of Air France’s 777s have economy in a 3-4-3 layout, regardless of whether they have 472 seats in not. The downside to this configuration is that the seats are narrower, the aisles are tiny and with so many people squeezed in, service is slower, the snacks are used up faster, the toilets are constantly in use and a small percentage get window views.

Another thing is that AF have at least 10 out of their 60 777s (the document link is from 2009, when they had 9 of those, there has been at least one delivery since) in that high density configuration. I have never insinuated that the majority are that type. Rather all 777s have 3-4-3 in Y.

It is for this reason that I will only travel A380 on both AF and Emirates, because of their 777 configurations (when in economy), Air New Zealand also pack the passengers into their new 77Ws.

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