[FaroFlyer]

Could this be the solution to Air France long haul issues?

Air France-KLM Takes 31% Stake In Virgin Atlantic

Replace AF short haul with Transavia, iHop & Joon. Long haul with VS.

[capetonianm]

I had to look at the calendar to make sure it wasn’t 01APR today.

France is morally and financially bankrupt.

[AisleSeatTraveller]

perhaps IAG should make a cheeky bid for KLM to help Air France pay the bills

[Freelance3]

This is the story from last year

Air France-KLM buys 31 percent stake in Virgin Atlantic

[FaroFlyer]

Hi Freelance3, yes, that was when the intention was announced, now it seems to be actually happening

http://atwonline.com/airlines/virgin-atlantic-air-france-klm-and-delta-finalize-jv-terms

[Edski777]

AF won’t sell their flotation device while the company is drowning.
Let’s hope the triumvirate and, in the near future, a capable and competent new chairman can get them back on track.

Unfortunately chances are bigger it will be another French political appointee.

This will be taught at future MBA courses on how not to run a company.

[Huit-Six]

[quote quote=867010]I had to look at the calendar to make sure it wasn’t 01APR today.

France is morally and financially bankrupt.[/quote]

Yet another simply anti-French and false useless statement. If you need to comment, try to say something meaningful for a change!
France has its issues, like many countries, but how is your message relevant to the topic?

[quote quote=867042]AF won’t sell their flotation device while the company is drowning.

Let’s hope the triumvirate and, in the near future, a capable and competent new chairman can get them back on track.

Unfortunately chances are bigger it will be another French political appointee.

This will be taught at future MBA courses on how not to run a company.[/quote]

I fully agree with your comment.

What is killing Air France is the labor unions, they are appalling and that’s unfortunately not exclusive to Air France. My father was exposed to these people while working at CDG in the 80s and ORY in the 90s, I still remember what he thinks of them: “These people live on a different planet. They have no clue about the business reality of an international airline.” and sadly, it’s still true 30 years later!

How long is KLM and the other shareholders (Delta, China Eastern…) going to put up with a minority of employees? For those who are interested, here is the shareholder distribution of Air France KLM:
http://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance/financial-information/capital-structure

I hope they won’t follow the path of Alitalia… similar issues.

[capetonianm]

I had to look at the calendar to make sure it wasn’t 01APR today.

France is morally and financially bankrupt.

Yet another simply anti-French and false useless statement. If you need to comment, try to say something meaningful for a change!
France has its issues, like many countries, but how is your message relevant to the topic?

Anti-French, yes. Considering the inconvenience that French strikes cause to people travelling in Europe and globally with monotonous regularity and increasing frequency, it is hardly surprising that people are anti-French. I am, and am in no way reluctant or ashamed to state that. I don’t think it is (yet, even in PC UK) a crime to admit to disliking some aspects of a particular nationality, and no, it does not constitute hate speech to express a view. Don’t even get me started about the miserable attitude to customer ‘service’ in France, pretty much towards the bottom end on a global scale.

Relevant : It is rather relevant if an airline which loses massive amounts of money and is supported by taxpayers’ money (you might pretend otherwise) purports to want to buy into other assets.

Useless/false : It is easy to dismiss as ‘useless’ or ‘false’ something you don’t agree with. It’s a bit of a loser’s argument, rather like playing the race card.

Cependant, je te souhaite une tres bonne journee.

[Edski777]

Capetonian: No need to be anti-French. They are quite accomplished at self-harm.

Unless the AF personnel wakes up soon and do some reality check before restarting negotiations it will only result in another string of strikes.
AF is uncompetitive because of their operating costs, their lower than the industry norm productivity and their inability to live up to changing circumstances.
Many other airlines have gone down the same route and have disappeared or have massively restructured. Not only in Europe, but literally all over the world.
The “good old days” with high ticket prices, great results and routes operated only by a few semi-government owned airlines, well protected by agreements between governments, are long gone and will not return. It has developed into an aggressive and competitive world nowadays. You have to prepare for it and be ready to fight.

And one thing is clear from the start: AF is clearly not ready for this market and their personnel and the unions are resisting reality. KLM is well prepared, but will be dragged down with AF if this is to continue.

[alainboy56]

Fully agree with all the AF criticisms here.
I used to be, until quite recently, a Platinum Flying Blue member and in the air to be fair, they are not so bad, but on the ground, and workers in general in France are so disinterested and militant.
Customer Service must be an alien expression en francais.

I am still waiting and hoping for KLM (they deserve better) to separate themselves again, and for AF and AZ to amalgamate and form absolutely the ‘Worst Airline in the World’. I heard this rumour ie ‘ciak ciak di bar’ now a few years ago, but its taking its time to emerge.

[EU_Flyer]

As others have already eloquently stated, AF and it’s union staff needs to wake up to the realities of airlines in the 21st century. I still remember the BA Xmas strikes in around 2009 being stuck at Singapore Airport wondering if the BA16 would operate on Xmas eve. I never wanted to see the word Unite ever again.

This kind of brinkmanship rarely ends well for the staff. Look at Alitalia. It’s unlikely many will keep their jobs even if the airline survives, the potential of the Etihad investment never realised.

The VS investment won’t solve AF’s fundamental problem.

[Kimi_CDG]

[quote quote=867010]France is morally and financially bankrupt.[/quote]

As asked before, do you mind explaining us how you ended up with this generalisation based on AF situation?

Note: French here. I love both the UK and France (for different reasons) and dislike both BA and AF (for different reasons).

[capetonianm]

Where do I start?

The French unions and the way they have for decades controlled the country and stunted its growth, inconveniencing millions of people annually?
The way Air France and Sud Aviation assassinated the Concorde project?
The rampant and destructive socialism which hinders growth and progress?
The personal morals (lack of) of most French politicans and business leaders (and in truth of other nationalities too)?
The devious and sly practices of the French in business and private life and their alleycat morality?
The third world mentality disguised by a veneer of first world technology?
The sense of entitlement of the French ‘worker’? Goes with the socialist mentality.
It’s all very well to have a great social system and a purportedly excellent medical care service but it isn’t sustainable.

Of course you won’t agree.

One thing we have in common : I dislike both BA and AF (for different reasons).

[alainboy56]

@captonianm — as they would say on the ‘back benches’ in British Parliament — “HEAR HEAR” – P.S. My MD is French – You forgot to add that French (a generalisation) have a feeling of superiority — other than that, I need not add more.

[Kimi_CDG]

So much hate and sourness… Really sad…
If France is bankrupt, so are all the countries (the UK included) with a similar level of debt.

France has always been considered attractive when looking at Foreign Direct Investment data. Maybe a smaller share of the cake than before but still attractive.

Then, obviously a lot of problems to solve.
These strikes led by a minority of workers in a limited number of sectors are indeed unacceptable.
The bad level of customer service sometimes seen in Paris is nowhere to be seen outside the capital though, at least where the Parisians are not lol.

I have worked with people from quite a lot of places. I have also ranted a lot about the flaws you have pointed out (delays, strikes, feeling of superiority…). Guess what? You can find them in other countries as well

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