[Hippocampus]

Binman62 – When did you last try to book LHR DPS on ba.com? I just did a dummy booking and numerous options were offered with connections on partner airlines. ba.com was recently upgraded to offer bookings to destinations not served by BA or codeshare partners.

[continentalclub]

Correct, Hippocampus; ba.com does indeed offer fare quotes through to DPS:

http://bit.ly/b1VkDr

– including sectors on Singapore Airlines and also on Cathay services, both codeshare and non-codeshare. I assume that the fares are the same as those offered through the contact centre – though others may be better placed to comment on this.

[Bucksnet]

Even if ‘front end’ demand to KUL is limited, as long as there is F and J demand to SYD then the flight can stop in KUL instead of SIN.

[continentalclub]

This model only works, Bucksnet, if there is demand KUL-XXX in First and Business.

If you look at fares, which broadly reflect demand, you’ll see that the London-Asia sector is usually between 80% to 90% of the London-Australia fare in a given class. Likewise, the Asia-Australia fares are often 70% plus of the London-Australia fare.

Accordingly, these twin-sector routes to the Antipodes can only be profitable when there is front-end demand at both the origin and destination, to and from the transit point. The O&D fares simply don’t provide the revenue required – and Europe to Australia continue to generate some of the lowest pence per mile full-service routes.

So, for Kuala Lumpur to be a realistic prospect, you need to be sure of not only the demand from London to Malaysia but also, discretely, a destination beyond KL that is underserved/offers potential for premium loads between KL and that destination (and vv).

[Bucksnet]

I understand, but moving the existing flight is far more viable than starting a new KUL terminating flight. With the right timings, BA can also offer a whole range of connecting flights to North America and reduce the time on the ground at SYD, as it has 2 planes doing nothing for most of the day, so saving frames. Say LHR-BKK-SYD-KUL-LHR and vice versa, with no wasted time at SYD and the BKK flights still operating on roughly their current schedule. Talking of BKK, I’ve read there is little premium demand there, certainly not at full fare, so how does that work? Maybe most of the passengers are going to SYD?

[AMcWhirter]

Bucksnet

Oz is a very expensive destination to serve from London. The economics of the operation are stacked against point-to-point carriers like BA, QF and VS.

The reason why BA’s planes (and those of VS too) spend so long on the ground in SYD is because, were they to leave earlier, they would run up against the LHR curfew.

[Bucksnet]

A little earlier yes, but 8 hours earlier and they will back at LHR in the evening. I understand that the flight from BKK or KUL to LHR would be a day flight and the implications of that, but there would be no downtime in SYD.

[continentalclub]

In theory, Bucksnet, yes – but then all that would happen is that you’d have the aircraft sitting in London overnight instead – with probably the need for extra downroute crews to handle the shorter SYD turnrounds. The other downside is that a morning departure from Sydney precludes all sorts of connecting traffic – from other Australian cities as well as New Zealand and some of the near islands. The existing tea-time schedules exSYD are far more convenient.

In the past, of course, British Airways used aircraft in Sydney to tag flights on to Melbourne etc., but it was far from unusual to see loads of c80 on a 744 which, not surprisingly, cost far more than having the aircraft on the ground.

The best use of the aircraft’s time, from Sydney, would probably be an Auckland tag, but full-service supply on this route is already way over demand with Qantas sending 737s and 767s, Air New Zealand deploying otherwise-resting longhaul 777s alongside A320s and 767s, LAN and Aerolineas Argentinas with their A340s and Emirates with the A380. Then you’ve also got Virgin Blue with their no-frills offer.

None of which is directly relevant to the KUL discussion, other than to say that there’s a reason why only two European airlines serve Australia any more and, as LondonCity says, that’s purely down to the difficulty of making these twin-sector routes profitable from either end.

By far the most long-standing of these carriers has tried almost every possible scheduling and routing option for its Sydney service already – and KUL-SYD is not an obvious cherry to pick in terms of an under-served, strong-demand premium load route.

[Kais767]

I seriously doubt BA will drop SIN-SYD in favor of KUL-SYD. If they were to fly to another OZ destination like BNE or PER, KUL may be a stop instead if BKK or SIN in my opinion.

[Binman62]

hippocampus and continental club……thank you for the notice re BA.com, I had heard it was on its way but had yet to try it out. Like you I have now done so with some interesting results which for the time being will ensure that I stick to the call centers and the consolidators.
A LHR SIN return in F is £4798.20 using dates in August next year. Using the same dates to go to/from DPS increases the fare to £8218 or the full unrestricted fare.
KLM meanwhile are offering round trip in Business on the same flights via their own web site at £374. Not sure anyone could justify almost doubling a fare for the sake of it being a through ticket.
Have also noticed that BA.com not allowing if journey originates outside of london, eg Paris Frankfurt etc.
BA.com may be good but AA.com is far better at providing fares and itinerary for price concious travellers….like me.

[FrasierForum]

The traffic is indeed there – BA just needs to somehow ‘find’ it…

I travel several times a year on the route and over the years have had to fly on MAS, AirAsia (at desperate times), Lufthansa, Singapore, Cathay, Thai and KLM.. having been a regular BA traveller on this route in the past.

On many flights, it would seem many fellow passengers have also pondered on how on earth BA has so far managed not to return to the route – as it seems to be a topic of conversation that many people seem to strike up on board.

Returning from KUL last week on LH783, there were only 3 empty seats in Business Class leaving KUL – with about 60% destined for Frankfurt (the flight operates via BKK) and many in transit for the UK, Europe and USA. Couldn’t really see (upstairs) to determine the rough loads in First, but Economy was full (out of KL and BKK) with about 50% passengers switching over at BKK.

On a previous trip with SQ only 3 months earlier – the purser advised me (in idle chat) that there were over 280 passengers on the A380 that evening who had joined the flight from Malaysia (KL and Penang mainly). I gather Malaysia Airlines and Air Asia also command their own loads on the route – as well as the likes of EK, QR, GF and EY (although I have decided to avoid them for now).

When it comes to the maths of profitability and sustainability however – I confess I have little idea (not being in the industry) but the guys/gals at BA remain concern that yields were poor when they left (KL). This however is likely to change with the strengthening Ringgit – perhaps one of Asia’s best performers in the last 12 months…

i think its a matter of time before we see KUL back on the BA map. Several factors like New Fleet crewing as well as the possibility of an LGW route are being evaluated so i hear. Plans for a possible LHR-KUL-MEL route were trumped by Emirates’ successful DXB-KUL-MEL launch which grows into a 777-300ER route this winter.

Suggestions of LHR-KUL-SGN also seem quite plausible and there is also perhaps room to add a new LHR-BKK-KUL 777 to compliment the current BA9. I look forward to Flying the Flag once again to Malaysia.. i hope.

[Kais767]

I agree, faiserforum. I must say MH is seriously losing out as many passengers departing Malaysia to many destinations prefer going via BKK, HKG, DXB and most of all, SIN. For example, if MH deemed there is not enough traffic to New York, why are there so many ex-KUL pax flying SQ there? They are even losing out in the Asian market.

Now back to BA: LON-KUL-MEL is out if the question now as even EK has joined in along with D7 and MH. If they were to fly to another Oz city I think PER would be more likely.

[Kais767]

Sorry to dig up this thread but I didn’t see the point to start another thread.

With MH joining OW, surely this is encouraging BA to return. Even QF is giving it a thought. How likely will the two airlines return?

Surely with MH’s Aussie/NZ network, BA can rely on connecting pax.

[Author]

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