[VintageKrug]

Indeed, all disciplinaries have followed – to the letter –BASSA sanctioned procedures.

BA offered binding independent ACAS arbitration on the more serious outstanding cases, but this was rejected by BASSA.

[craigwatson]

I agree completely, and to be honest it really doesnt matter if people were being suspended/terminated “willy nilly” as an employemnt tribunal would then find in their favour and force their reinstatement and payment of back pay for time lost.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

craigwatson

A tribunal cannot force an employer to reinstate an employee, that is an urban myth.

They can recommend renistatement and they can award compensation payments to unfairly dismissed employees.

[CharlesJones]

NTarrent et al.I somewhat would agree with all of the points you are all making.Ofcourse companies change and times move on. I have seen that only too well within my company. Some good,some bad. I’m not trying to kid you or win an argument here. My job has changed alot since I started as has everyone elses. What I am trying to do is give you some insight as to the reality of things that are going on at the high end of the organisation. Someone just said that Willy’s increase of 12% is because he is moving to his new role. Correct. His actual job will not change much at all,but I’m not arguing with that point. He has,along with our leadership team,taken a huge increase in pay over the last year. The shares that our leaders were told that they would recieve this year are astronomical,I don’t think anyone can argue with that. If a company,any company whether its huge like BA or a small run business,what you don’t do if you are ‘supposedly’ on our knees and drawing your last breath is increase your employees and employers pay. That would be utter madness. The fact is,this is what has happened at BA,but unfortunately not to the majority of the employees,but it has for our CEO and his right hand men and women. Do you think this is right? If anyone could answer ‘yes’ to that then something must be very wrong. The whole reasoning that started this dispute was that we were in a ‘Fight for Survival’. We’re not. We never were. It’s been quite clear and this had been argued by many of the financial analysts months ago. After 22 days of striking,volcanic ash and millions of pounds of fines BA is very healthily back in profit.  We are predicting a much bigger rise in profit in the next quarter. Still though we are in the midst of a dispute which could end very quickly and very easily. But it’s not. I totally agree with you DisgustedofSwieqi, ”
I do, however, have immense sympathy for the non striking cabin crew, who are stuck in the middle of this stupid dispute, which should have been laid to rest a long time ago.” I think the words ‘laid to rest’ are very well chosen. The crew have now had to deal with the imposition and given the savings that Walsh asked for at the start of this. I really hope the board see sense and lay this to rest. I love my job which is why I won’t be giving it up that easily. I hope this sorry state of affairs ends soon and I will still be here as I am not going to be pushed out because of corporate greed at the high end. By the way,there are people here that agree with what Walsh is doing that’s true,but there are also many that don’t. I guess that’s understandable in life. Respect to all on here.

[VintageKrug]

Someone asked for some evidence for the more extreme examples of sacked employees.

Here is an example where a BASSA member wore a Nazi-style Star of David identifier, with the words “BASSA” instead of “JUDE” written across it.

Sickening behaviour, and I for one can certainly understand why collecting money for such people is objectionable to many who feel offended by some elements of the BASSA approach to industrial relations:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/37975/ba-crew-i-was-%EF%AC%81red-after-pro-nazi-row

Would you feel comfortable in your workplace if funds were being collected to support such individuals?

[pussycat]

VK, where did you get this information from?
I’ve just read the article from the link and it tells us about a cabin crew member whose father had been in 2 concentration camps. He had an argument in a bar with a German based crew member to which there are no witnesses.
At no time does it mention this so called badge that you say he had worn. You are the only one who mentions a badge.
It doesnt seem to fit with the article, and I would urge everyone to read the article which is linked.
Obviously, if he has been sacked, then there must have been some evidence of misconduct, but no evidence is given in the article.
Perhaps if you could point us in the direction of where you got this information, we could see for ourselves, rather than just hearsay.

[VintageKrug]

CharlesJones it is crazy to suggest that BA was not in a very precarious financial position, as were many (if not most) firms 6-18 months ago.

Many departments across BA took drastic, structural action to change the cost profile permanently; BASSA refused to engage, refused access to the books, proposed a temporary “loan” of a salary cut to be repaid in full, was exposed by an independent firm as offering about half the savings this “loan” was claimed to total, and refused to negotiate on any of this based on a show of hands of less than 500 of the membership.

BASSA then had the single change of one fewer crewmember imposed, as BA has been legally proven it was entitled to do by the High Court.

It is all these collective cost saving actions, driven by management, which have resulted in the new, lower cost profile, and return to profitability. It was simply unfair for everyone else within BA to make these tough choices without crew contributing.

BA *has* offered cabin crew a pay rise, and this has been rejected by BASSA.

[VintageKrug]

Pussy, the source for the Star Of David issue was a post on cabincrew com made on 9 September 3.29pm by “redmark” which I cannot link directly to but is about half way down the page:

<a href="http://whttp://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/forum_posts.asp?TID=38457&PN=3“>http://whttp://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/forum_posts.asp?TID=38457&PN=3

The BASSA inscribed Star of David was allegedly seen on Sky News being worn by a sacked crewmember.

Further evidence of the trend towards the use of Nazi-imagery can be seen below:

http://daylife.sky.com/imageserve/0dmM91Edndabg/610x.jpg

As is the deeply offensive and unnecessarily personal depiction of Willie Walsh as the Devil on the http://www.uniteba.com website homepage.

[CharlesJones]

VK,are you actually understanding what I’m trying to say? I’m guessing you don’t work for BA do you?

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Charles

VK is a very serious customer of BA (and I add a fervent supporter.)

Maybe you aren’t getting what he is saying?

[VintageKrug]

And I might add, also a supporter of proper Union representation, especially in cyclical lower paid industries.

I am also a strong supporter of cabin crew themselves; they are a large part of the reason (but not the only reason) I choose to put a significant part of my business BA’s way.

But Cabin Crew have been horribly misrepresented by Duncan Holley and the BASSA negotiating team, who have dodged the real issues at stake to personalise the issues and drag this dispute into the gutter, and discredited both themselves and the wider Union movement. They have gained the sum total of nothing for crew, proposing a pay CUT while BA proposes a pay RISE (*rolls eyes*) all the while opening the door wide to the real threat which is Mixed Fleet which proceeds apace (and I for one am glad to see it succeeding!) but which was never envisaged to be such a size until BASSA’s cackhanded approach to Industrial Relations took hold.

It is time for a change at BASSA, and for a pragmatic negotiating position to be adopted.

While I re-iterate that I remain absolutely a supporter of cabin crew generally, cabin crew have also been tarred by the BASSA brush by the public at large.

It is also difficult to understand why crew who are properly informed about the issues (i.e. take their sources of information from more than just the BASSA-cult website) remain paying a not inconsiderable £1.5m per annum in subs from their own wages to this motley band of Militants, around 5% (= circa £75,000 per annum) of which goes directly into the pocket of one Duncan Holley, no longer employed by British Airways (and never likely to be again) and whose negotiating position is one of personal revenge, rather than being mindful of the interests of the wider cabin crew community.

[CharlesJones]

Disgusted……if you want to meet another person who is a fervent supporter of BA then look no further than myself. I hear loud and clear what VK is saying and he certainly raises some good issues but I think he sometimes is unable to see it from any other viewpoint,hence my question.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

I am not a fervent suppoter of BA.

New Club World is a good product and the route network is good, but apart from that, I don’t really care whether BA lives or dies – your company is easily replaceable for me.

Which is why you should listen to VK, as he is loyal to your company.

[CharlesJones]

Disgusted…..to be fair I don’t blame the way you,in all honesty I don’t think you’re getting my point.

Can I just ask you VK….if the weapons were put down today and everyone in BA carried on as they are and BA continued to make big profits,would you be happy?

[VintageKrug]

My happiness or otherwise is neither dependent on the outcome of this dispute, and nor is it relevant to cabin crew.

Profit is not the sole motivator when you are in business.

From a purely dispassionate perspective, I saw the most recent offer by BA (a pay rise, eventual staged return of staff travel and the ending of legal action) and negotiated by Unite (not BASSA) as a satisfactory compromise both for cabin crew as well as management.

Going back to the old days when BASSA dictated BA’s day to day operations will never happen; unfortunately the BASSA hardliners do not realise this and so an intractable situation has developed, exacerbated by the distraction of the election of the General Secretary of Unite.

Unfortunately, Duncan Holley, the BASSA Branch Secretary, now has his own personal nest to feather and axe to grind, and he is hell-bent on taking BA down to achieve those aims, as well as perpetuating the strike as long as possible to put off a re-election of the BASSA Committee, and maintain his lucrative estimated Union income of circa £75,000 per annum. He has stated he will remain as secretary until the end of 2011!!

A settlement as previously offered, and including the cessation of legal action, is long overdue, and the ball remains in BASSA’s court to put this generous offer to a vote of its membership.

BASSA has no weapons in its armoury to influence the negotiations, the strike threat is non-existent, and BA is busy expanding its route network, growing its fleet and joining up with Iberia and American Airlines, while BASSA continues to lose members, cause internal strife within Unite/Amicus and sideline its members who are now losing out on a pay rise and haven’t even been given the opportunity to vote on the proposal themselves.

It is a sad situation for cabin crew, and while BA Management are not without fault in this, they have played a very straight bat, been honest in their comms (as they are legally required to do) and remained business-focussed, while BASSA has dodged and personalised the arguments, deceived its membership, failed to articulate many of the risks of taking strike action, and repeatedly failed to gain legal backing for its position.

I have observed this dispute closely and I would like to be able to articulate a defence for BASSA. Sadly for its membership, BASSA has failed to articulate clearly its position, and is now in its death throes.

[Author]

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