[Anonymous]

[Shearer]

I was going to a birthday party in Glasgow yesterday so had booked a £50 Virgin Trains first class fare.

The service was the 0730hrs service from Euston to Glasgow Central, on a Pendolino.

I popped into the Virgin Trains “First” “Class” lounge at Euston. Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Listen, if you’ve lost your free 18 December 2012 copy of Time Out, this lounge has hundreds. Not a newspaper in sight and the place is seriously grubby.

On to the train journey itself…

My ticket was checked five times.
At Glasgow they checked my ticket again. Infuriating. The checks were not timed with departures from stations so became irritating.

Frequent announcements were made encouraging people to try Weekend First for just £25. First Class was more or less empty, which is damns Virgin Trains pricing policies. Last minute tickets were selling for £73.50 in Standard and £229 in First Class. The supply/demand argument falls flat as the train was empty, and they could have offered tickets for Standard Price + £25 on their website, if they really wanted to.

The on-board service consisted of free WiFi, teas and coffees and a snack pack. The snack pack contained a bite size “Eat Natural” bar, a croissant and jam pack and some yogurt nuts and raisins. It was pretty rubbish. Served by an unsmiling unhelpful staff member who couldn’t have made it more obvious that he didn’t want to be there. Can you imagine if I had paid £229?

On a four and a half hour journey I was offered two cups of coffee.
The WiFi didn’t work and the smell of toilet permeated the train, a problem that Virgin insists they have fixed a long time ago.

I think this marks my last non-essential Virgin Trains journey.
I can’t be bothered with them anymore.

[SimonRowberry]

NIRScot,

This is interesting.

I use Virgin First twice a week between Coventry and Watford Junction (down Monday morning and back Friday evening). The fare varies between £50 and £105 each way, depending on the time.

I was prepared to write Virgin West Coast off as I’d read a lot of negative stuff about them. However, I have no choice but to use this service, and First is better than Standard and gets me there and back in additional comfort. This is particularly important as I travel with 5 days worth of packing.

My experience has actually been fine. The morning trains serve a served-at-seat Full English Breakfast, even on the 10.13 departure. Yes, the evening service usually has sandwiches and crisps, with plenty of free booze (pity I’m now teetotal – not through choice, I add). The crew seem to mostly be very pleasant and. all-in-all, I can’t really complain. Especially when a Standard single can cost £69.00.

I guess it might be down to the route and the individual staff members. I do agree, however, that limited catering on a long journey must be a pain. I remember paying something like £180 one-way on a Saturday from Leamington to Newcastle on CrossCountry (who are not a patch on Virgin), and there wasn’t even a free cup of coffee…

As an aside (and talking about XCountry). I have a 3 minute connection at Coventry on the way back. This is never sold as it is less than 5 minutes. Therefore, I have a schedule 1 hr 3 minute stop on my way home. However, as the train from Watford arrives at the adjacent platform to my connection, and as XCountry are always running late, I always manage to get the earlier train.

However, if I am travelling on an Advance First ticket, I am almost always made to pay a separate single fare on the one-stop hop from Coventry to home. It is only £5.00 but it does stick in the throat. Most train managers see that I’ve bought an Advance First to my final destination, they know that the earlier connection is not sold, and yet they still insist on being jobsworths.

Regards, Simon

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

I have found travelling Virgin First Class pretty good overall. Yes there are gripes now and then but having travelled to Liverpool in November (amongst many trips) with a 4 month old they were excellent. My issues with them are that the weekend advance fare is the same as midweek but you get none of the service / meals that you get midweek which is very poor. At least make the cheapest fare slightly less. If you have the same base fare you would have through you’d get the same base service.

Anyway I agree constantly being ticket checked on a train is irritating (especially as you can’t access platforms to most major stations without going through a gate). But I don’t find that as infuriating as being checked when coming off a platform with luggage, buggy and everything else only for the revenue protection team (or generation team) so insist again that you get the ticket out although you have 4 pieces of baggage and pram with you. Unfortunately (and Virgin are OK – EMT suck at this) many rail companies don’t get it yet.

Also with the pram we sat where disabled travellers would sit (to let baby sit – and would have moved should a wheelchair / disabled user need the space) and it was a big space with enough space for 2 prams. Compared to EMT who are very tight space for one wheel chair user on an HST (whom we moved for on the way back from Nottingham at Christmas). Having a pram makes you begin to appreciate how tough it can be for disabled travellers.

[EnigmaticStar]

Simon,

Without wishing to preach to the converted, we all know that an Advance Purchase ticket with a specified train on is exactly that. If you manage to benefit from the situation as described and get an earlier train then great.

If you approach the Train Manager before boarding – or seek them out before they come to you once on-board – as opposed to boarding of your own free will with a ticket valiud for a different train then you might find you get a more agreeable response.

The bottom line is that your ticket is only valid for the specified service and if you take it upon yourself to do something different then that’s your own informed decision. Whilst you may not like the response from the Train Manager, it is the correct one and if the rules weren’t adhered to with regards to Advance Purchase tickets and travelling on specified trains then either the cheaper AP tickets would be withdrawn altogether as a response from the TOC’s or, if the situation wasn’t managed, then anyone would travel on any train they liked irrespective.

[SimonRowberry]

Now, now ES, slightly less patronising please…..

FYI, I always DO approach the Train Manager immediately on embarking, in his “office” by the cab. Also, I Do fully understand the rules. However, you miss the point entirely – there is an earlier connection which is not sold, because train companies in this country cannot be efficient enough to work on time margins of less than 5 minutes.

Simon

[EnigmaticStar]

Simon,

Not entirely correct. There is a standard connection time. At certain stations the connection time is set to be reduced where trains are booked on adjacent platforms and there is no choice over platform allocation. This can then be reduced to three minutes.

At a small number of stations connection times can be reduced to 1 minute where the service is infrequent or if the TOC deems it appropriate i.e. Princes Risborough when connecting on to the Aylesbury shuttle service.

Larger stations have connection times increased because of the walking distances involved and the fact that there is a choice over platform allocations.

I spent 7 years working as a Revenue Protection Inspector before moving on (though I still carry out the role several times per month). I will not specify with TOC(s) but had you been on one of my services and approached me beforehand or located me on the train before I had got to you then you would have been permitted travel to your destination on my service with no addtional charge.

The connections have to be robust because there is little sense in selling a ticket with a 3 minute connection if passengers have to negotiate stairs, lifts, lengthy walks or they are weighed down with luggage, children and other such articles.

It may not be ideal for all travellers but it has to be of benfit to the majority.

Cheers

Justin

[EnigmaticStar]

PS. Apologies if it did sound patronising (I don’t believe it did but that’s just my interpretation) but it wasn’t clear that you’d made a concerted effort to do what would be expected of you.

Anyway – sorry if it sounded rude.

[FlyerDoc]

My (multiple) experiences of Virgin First Class have almost always been positive, though i do recognise some of the gripes aired in this forum.

Always try to get a weekday train before 10am or between 4 and 7pm, as these are the ‘full service’ trains. The evening meal is usually on the average side but the breakfast is excellent. The drinks offerings are usually fairly generous.
Outside of these times, the food quality has deteriorated significantly over the years so don’t expect much.
Weekend service is essentially non-existent so only pay the extra for first if you want the seat.

The small lounge in Manchester does a reasonable coffee and is a pleasant place to wait if you are early for a train. It can however feel crowded or noisy with only a handful of people in it. It only offers snacks on the food front.
The Euston lounge is much bigger but is invariably very full and busy, to its detriment. The F+B offerings seem to be getting more and more limited. An overhaul of some sort is needed, but with the premium flexible ticket holders barely using it because train frequency is now so good, i don’t see this happening. The first class lounge at euston is destined to remain a waiting area for cheap (low profit) first advanced ticket holders and the service will reflect this. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

[PegasusAir]

I travel 2-3 times each month on the Manchester – London route and I find them excellent. The station staff are really helpful and the few delays (only one cancellation in over 10 years for me) are nearly always track or overhead line problems which is Network Rail not the operator. The catering depends on the time of departur from the originating station eg in First we get a choice of hot breakfasts up to 10am – full grill, scrambled eggs and smoked salmon, bacon or sausage rolls etc and in the evening 5 to 7pm I think a hot main dish, cheese and biscuits and ample wine. Outside of this you get snacks but the advance fares are cheaper at the off peak times. Maybe the Liverpool and Manchester routes are different to Scotland but I think for the advance fares city centre to city centre are very good value.

[esselle]

The on board product offer is greatly reduced at weekends, in first, as many of those travelling will have bought the reduced tariff tickets allowing upgrades to happen for very little extra cost.

[SimonRowberry]

ES

Absolutely no worries.

You make some interesting poinsts. Thanks.

At Coventry I arrive on Platform 3 and depart from Platform 2. On the level, no stairs, just one side of the platform to another.

On XCountry as I write. Friendly service rhis morning. Next leg is Virgin First …

Cheers, Simon

[EnigmaticStar]

Simon,
I’ve worked in scheduling since 2007 and we can have the standard interchange set higher or lower depending.

If you look at a copy of the NRTT there’s a section whcih tells you the minimum connection times at each station. Usually they are higher for one of the London Terminals. On the Thameslink route they are reduced to 3 minutes because they leave from the same platform (just possibly not the same end as it depends on whether you’re on a 4, 8 or 12-car and the fact you may need to walk 8 carriage lengths along the platform to reach the rear carriage of yur next train)

It’s all very intricate and we try to get it right but it’s by no means perfect and it isn’t a one-size-fits-all because of the nature of the railway.

With regards to Coventry, you will find that the lines are all Bi-Directional with the exception of Platform 1 which is in the Up (London) direction only. So it is possible that your train(s) could be routes in to Platform 4 and you would then need to cross over to the island platforms or vice-versa.

Justin

[LuganoPirate]

Such a shame the UK does not have an integrated travel policy. 3 minutes is too short to allow a connection to a regional service even on an adjacent platform, to allow an orderly dismebarkation especially if with bags, praams etc. Conversely 1 hour is much too long for people to have to wait.

Why not make the connection 5 minutes and if necessary have the local train wait in case the long distance one is late? UK rail is incomprehensible to me especially seeing the way connections work in Europe. Even in Italy they are timed for travelers convenience.

No wonder so many prefer air or car!

[cityprofessional]

Back to the OP, as esselle says, the weekend product is considerably reduced to reflect the fare paid

£50 to Glasgow in First class is an absolute bargain – 350 miles, for less the price of (a) flying and (b) many of the tickets sold in Standard Class. The snack pack and cups of coffee should be seen as a bonus. In any case, with a first class ticket you can go to the buffet car and ask for additional drinks if you wish

And the £25 weekend upgrade is freely and readily available on the Virgin Trains website; there is no reason to pay for a flexible First rail ticket at the weekend on any route offering well-publicised upgrades for a surcharge

Not sure what else you expected at that price? A 5* meal?

[Author]

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