[MarkivJ]

Good afternoon folks, I’m not as well versed in the aviation business as some of you are so I apologise in advance if I’m asking a silly question.

I’m having a problem understanding the reason behind this. Years ago, Air France pulled out of SEA and gave their slot to DL (as SEA was growing to be a DL hub and they quoted better resource mgmt if they had it to DL). So why would DL give up a flight in their SEA hub to their partner who have to set up logistics and stuff here from scratch.

I wouldn’t have asked this question if VS were introducing this flight in addition to DL’s daily flight.

[Coldbat]

Numerous reasons MarkivJ-

The infrastructure will be minimal as again the partnership is much much more than code-sharing. In fact the gate staff will probably be 99% DL bodies anyway. Just changing the screen imagery ect..

As for the change in general. DL is viewing SEA more and more as their gateway to the Asian markets not currently being served. By pulling the DL metal away from LHR, they have freed up this slot to possibly use it for their Asian targets. This also gives VS new exposure in the Pacific NW. DL has also now announced starting next year a slot from PDX to LHR.

DL is similarly switching things in DTW and ATL, taking back slots to LHR from VS.

As I had mentioned above in a much more sarcastic manner, this joint venture (while sometimes criticized from the outside) has done wonders in not only reviving VS, but promoting both firms’ goals. The movement of slots is simply a result of the numbers telling them to do so!

[MarkivJ]

Hi coldbat, I really appreciate the detail! Thanks very much sir. And everything you said makes sense. I had no idea about PDX-LHR until now, so it makes even more sense.

Now if only some Skyteam member or partner could open up a LHR-BLR nonstop and I’m signing up!

[Defcon5]

First post for me after spending a few years observing these forums.

I think it is a smart move being able to move aircraft around here between the two airlines. The VS and DL brands are very differentl and will have different appeal to travellers depending on the profile of the destination.

You would think VS must have struggled on DTW and ATL as they are both well established DL hubs and mainly corporate routes. Somewhere like SEA could work from an ex. UK perspective, it was only a few years ago YVR was online for a season or two before the restructure so you they seem want to give the Pacific NW another crack for the leisure market whilst also tapping into the corporate (Boeing, Starbucks etc.)

More interesting though is a direct service from MAN – JFK. It’s good to see a British carrier finally flying from anywhere else other than London to connect to North America.

This week DL started EDI – JFK, sounds like a route that could work for VS too at some point?

When will BA join the party?

[AndrewinHK]

Come on IAG buy Norweigan so you can attack VS head on with 787’s from the UK regions and Gatwick. I also think BA will strengthen Seattle to double daily in the near future.

[Tom Otley]

There is a summary of the changes here

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/delta-and-virgin-boost-us-uk-routes

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

VS will keep at least 1 LHR-ATL rotation a day. The flights are doing well as the increase in VS market share on routes requiring a single connection have increased dramatically since the DL tie up and ATL is a key hub. also with VS offering a proper Premium Economy they won’t lose this as an option. I have a lot of clients who will only use the VS operated flights across the Atlantic.

I think the DTW/SEA switch makes sense. DL is not doing as well as it could against BA given the product offering and the strong British presence on these flights (compared to DTW). So putting VS against BA on SEA could win much more Premium Business going out to Microsoft / Boeing et al.

So the VS/DL is paying off for them both and coming up with some interesting routings. I still fancy CVG to make a come back with DL/VS before BA get on it (though offers huge potential for BA for feed from Europe).

[Coldbat]

The DL CVG-CDG route does quite well and is quite the sort of hidden gem!

I don’t see a need to have a LHR route added as DTW and ATL are an easy connection away. However an AMS addition would be more of an intriguing option.

The new RDU-CGD route is due to the success from CVG.

[MarkivJ]

Portland really is exploding. We bought a house 2 years ago and the price is up 50% already. It’s the latest hotspot for VCs who can’t afford to fund companies and salaries in the Silicon valley. yet, the fact that it’s only an hour’ish away by flight means they’re not too far away either.

Where I’m going with this is that BA won’t have any issues filling bums on the seats should they start direct flights to PDX (and let’s be honest, they’d use a 787-8 so should be easy!). However, I don’t know if BA can get premium traffic on this route. Hence the hesitation perhaps?

Also a lot of PDX pax who fly BA connect via Seattle (Alaska Airlines partnership). So I reckon BA would instead focus on going double daily on SEA where they have a massive ardent customer base already.

[BackOfThePlane]

MarkivJ – 02/06/2016 01:12 BST

I’ve never been to Portland / Seattle so, MarkivJ, I bow to your far superior knowledge of the area and market.

However, isn’t this a bit like San Francisco / San Jose? They are near to each other and BA already firm established at SFO, but still launching 787-9 to SJO next year.

I’m sure there is more businss traffic to San Jose than Portland but sure that BA could operate a 787-8 to PDX more successfully than VS or DL.

[PeterCoultas]

PDX is a much more user friendly airport than SEA and also Portland has a good mass transit system as well.

Would suggest it is a great entry point to the US west coast and with a good CBD that provides excellent places to eat & drink. Additionally easy access to stunning surrounding countryside & coast nearby – even summer skiing. A hidden gem so long as the volcanoes behave.

Only regret that I did not buy there during a 2 year sabbatical.

[TheLion]

@MarkivJ & @BackOfThePlane

Agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. I’d add that BA have been potentially rather slow in adding brand new US markets since the AUS launch (SJC is really tapping into the SFO-led Bay Area market).

I find it curious that WW has talked of BA looking to lease (read drive down Airbus’s prices!) used A380s and B77Ws to add capacity, yet have said nothing about acquiring smaller 3-class, no-F aircraft which would be ideal for launching new routes, such as B788s or A332s.

They also haven’t indicated that they will put a 3-class product on their new B789s, and may not choose to do so, which begs the question as to whether they are have any plans to launch any new secondary cities in the next couple of years; the four B788 conversions are a good 18 months off delivery for example, and there are only four of them.

[AndrewinHK]

@backoftheplane just a small thing but San Jose has already launched.

[BackOfThePlane]

AndrewinHK – 02/06/2016 12:12 BST

Yes, I stand corrected – my brain was still stuck in gear regards the future DL flight between LHR & PDX.

The other, cardinal error I have made (on a roll here…..) is to refer to San Jose as SJO when it should be SJC. Anyone booking to SJO with BA will end up in San Jose, Costa Rica. Lovely country, but a long drive to California.

How long before the Daily Mail have a story about passengers ending up in the wrong San Jose (probably booked by me).

TheLion – 02/06/2016 11:59 BST

Agree, it is odd that BA seem set on fitting all their 787-9s in a 4-class especially as they have 3 & 4 class on their 777-200s.

[mikeact]

I live in hope that one day I can order a KL/AF award ticket on Virgin/Delta code shares. Delta,no problem, but with Virgin a big No No.

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