[VintageKrug]

As I recall, this was trailered on here about six months ago.

It makes sense not to refurb aircraft which may be leaving the fleet, and with (off the top of my head) 4 747s having been returned from the desert, 6 777-300ERs being delivered 2010/2011 and the A380s coming online from 2013, as well as the refurbishment of the 767s, and reduction of the aircraft intensive Sydney-BKK route, BA will soon have more aircraft than it needs.

These extra airframes will be helpful to increase capacity during the Olympics, but are likely to be surplus to requirements shortly thereafter.

The 747s were always first in line for the chop, as they are not as fuel efficient as the 777s; two are in permanent storage at Cardiff.

The age if an airframe may not be representative of its actual future lifespan; G-BNLE may have good reason (such as recent D-checks) to justify the investment in its interior.

[Bullfrog]

@Martyn

My point exactly is that First is probably prestige, and an award winning, market leading Business Class would suit most pockets. I am fortunate to have an open ended personal budget on travel but I do know the word value.

A £1900 Club World return to the USA makes sense. The BA website was quoting circa £ 4000 extra to upgrade to First. In my value book, BA’s offering is no where near good enough to justify more than about another £ 2000 max.

However, the family approve spending £ 1800 to use the Windsor Suite at Heathrow T5. VIP service from being dropped by our driver to the door of the aircraft.

[openfly]

VK….you are slightly off-track when you say that ” very few staff have access to First”. Oh they do. Thousands of them.

All serving and retired senior pilots and senior managers, and their families, have access to firm F concessions twice, or more, a year. The Captain now has the authority to upgrade to F anyone he chooses including other staff, relatives and his junior cabin crews mothers’ uncles’ brothers’ milkman!! MartynSinclair beats on about 60B….I hope this doesnt give him heart failure.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“It is entirely erroneous to suggest “most” F passengers are upgrades, mileage or staff. “

I would be grateful if you would provide a verifiable reference for this assertion.

As you have no connection with BA, you are, presumably, quoting information available in the public domain.

[STORMIN']

As a Gold Card holder since inception over 20 years ago, I have been fortunate to have been upgraded to First from Club on numerous occasions over the years but not recently until last week when I was upgraded both outbound and inbound Singapore.

New First was featured on both sectors and whilst not wishing to sound ungrateful, I can’t say that the experience was special. My feeling is that New First is not really “New”. Changes over “Old” First are largely gimmicky – electric window blinds, a “dimmer” wall light, a larger tv screen, larger table, etc. Not really life changing experiences. I didn’t notice any significant difference between the “Old” and “New” seat which is what it should really be about. Also, the general ambience was a feeling of congestion with the 14 suites being crammed in. On one sector, I was seated in 3K – it was impossible to open the overhead bin without stepping into the space of 3F.

The dining experience was very disappointing – the menu choice, quality and quantity of food available were no better than the Business Class of other quality European flag-carriers, never mind that of the Middle East and Far East carriers. Even the crew were not particularly hospitable which has always, in my experience, been one of BA’s (few) strengths. On these two particular sectors, the cabin crew were of the more mature age variety who tend to have a particular attitude compared to their younger colleagues.

However, I do wonder if this may have been, at least in part, down to the fact that I was an Upgrade. When upgraded previously, I have never been aware of any differentiation in terms of treatment by the cabin crew, as compared with others in the same cabin. On this occasion, there was most definitely a difference, in both directions. On the outbound, my Boarding Pass was reprinted at the Gate with “Involuntary Upgrade” all over it although I would imagine that the cabin crew would be made aware of Upgrades in the Passenger Manifest. This was a 20h30 departure – immediately after departure, everyone else had their drink orders taken – apart from me. Sometime later, I was offered a drink which came at 21h45. Everyone else had their meal service before I was asked what I would like. This was served after 23h00 by which time I had lost interest and others had finished theirs and gone to sleep. Similar experience on the way back. The person in front and behind were served along with others in the cabin long before me – at breakfast, I was not offered anything other than the main dish and despite asking for a juice, it never came and I had to get up and get this from the galley where the crew were chatting away – I was clearly an inconvenience.

I wonder if there is an official two track service in First where Upgrades are concerned. Quite frankly, privacy apart, I really can’t see the value of First against Club, or at least Business Class with other carriers – who on earth is prepared to pay the considerable premium to travel First – I suspect not many which would support the view that perhaps this is the domain of staff – on the outbound, the guy in front of me was a BA dignitary.

Ultimately, unlike other carriers where I have travelled First, there was absolutely no “wow” factor at all and my suggestion would be to scrap First and upgrade Club to, at least, the level of Business Class of other quality European carriers

[Tete_de_cuvee]

I have heard from long term crew, with the advent of iPads detailing premium cabin passenger status down to a fine level as well as preferences, that they have been required to serve in status order as opposed to back to front or vice-versa.

Undoubtably Stormin if you had stayed in Club your status would have been very high but as you surmise as an involuntary upgrade to F, your status there would be below the other full fare F pax.

Even in F not all menu options are guaranteed if the cabin is full. Prioritising by status ensures high status pax get their desired choices.

It is not the crew’s fault, it is what they have been instructed to do.

[STORMIN']

Thanks Tête_de_cuvée – you’ve confirmed my suspicions. It’s mainly about the lie-flat bed for me, so – given the marginal benefits (for me) of First, perhaps I’m better off staying in Club where I might be treated with better deference!

[Senator]

I recently sampled the NF on LHR-JFK. I had ample time for a visit to the Concorde Room. This was all on Boxing Day, and it was rather quiet. I was a bit stressed, so I worked most of my 2½hrs in the lounge, so my review may be slightly biased by this.

Strong points:
+ It is tranquil and nice, no doubt.
+ The dining experience is special and food (starter and cheese to save myself for the flight) of very good quality.
+ Wine selection very good
+ Ample space for work
+ I had a treatment at the spa, booked on arrival which was good

To improve:
– The catering staff working the bar had too loud, and too personal conversations about relationships for where they are working
– Champagne selection left a bit to be desired

The flight was operated using a B747-400 and I had seat 1A.

Strong points:
+ Friendly, attentive staff
+ Food of good quality
+ Seat comfortable

To improve:
– Too many errors in terms of bringing correct beverage and food choices
– Very tight cabin with 14 seats (reference point LX A330-300)
– Higher quality IFE screen

All in all, a decent experience but I prefer LX for overall experience. I will have my first full LH F experience in March to IAD including FCT. I’ve most likely have old F cabin, but for a day flight is ok.

[JordanD]

Not sure I agree on the priority order … I was upgraded on my flight to BOM recently (from WT+ to CW), my boarding card stating “Cabin Upgrade”. Despite being a lowly blue, I was one of the first to be served, and received nearly excellent service throughout. (A bit of help when I spilt some champagne would have been good, but I’ll survive. That an IFE that works …)

From reading various threads on the same on FlyerTalk, there seems to be mixed opinion over whether status is taken into account in service, but it is clear that “at the gate upgrades” often result in a later meal choice.

[BTBAsccm]

When it comes to service standards in Club or First, prioritising meal choices against upgraded Exec card holders and full fare customers can be tricky.

Who in a full First or Club cabin do you give their choice of meal… the full fare F or J passenger or to an upgraded customer from J or WT+ who happens to be a Gold card holder? I have this issue on quite a few flights. There is no hard and fast rule. It’s important for us cabin crew to realise that a top tier gold card holder who has been upgraded is more valuable to BA as a customer than a J or F passenger who may only travel with us once a year…OR do I give the last choice of meal to my F or J pax hoping that they will enjoy their flight experience so much that they return to BA, and give the upgraded passenger no choice of meal… as I say, there’s no right or wrong answer.

And on a personal note, I would like Club to be re invented, with a launch in 2013 to accompany the arrival of our new 787 and A380. As much as I like the 747-400, some are rather tired, and could do with major updating, including IFE. Sadly none of our 747’s will receive the new seats in WT or WT+ or Thales IFE, even though they will be knocking around our skies for some time yet.

I recently flew on our 777-300, the cabin and IFE blew my socks off. I thought I was working for a different airline! What a delight of an aircraft to fly on, and such a pleasure to see our customers enjoying the flight. If only we had those new seats ( in all cabins ) on our beloved Jumbo… ahh, I can dream

So business men and women, what would you like to see Club on BA evolve into? Just a few ideas from me would be better access to aisles for more passengers, perhaps 7 or 6 across seating, inflight wifi, more luggage space at floor level, enhanced catering with two full hot meals served on most flights not just the longest…

[openfly]

The CSDs iPad also tells everybody how valuable you are, as a Gold, to BA. The grading goes from a lowly 30 (waste of space, dont bother..serve them last) to 90 (offer them a second coffee!).

I would be very interested, as would most of us, as to how the grading system works. Is it upgraded on a daily or annual basis??? If I am considered a bad one at the start of the year do I get uplifted to a higher number on my next spend. VK…I am sure you know the answer..

[RichHI1]

I guess it depends on why you travel first class. I would suggest 4 reasons for this:
Comfort and Space
Ease and convenience
Quality of Service
To flatter one’s ego.
I suggest most people will have a mixture of some or all of these.
My key priority is Comfort and Space, if BA were to extent the legroom and width of their NCW to the dimensions of First (or preferably a bit longer), I would have no problem travelling NCW (They get off the plane first anyway. ) The problem is real estate is one of the biggets constraints for an Airline and I suspect the net effect of this is Business Class will actually shrink and offer moy toys, more unlimited middel quality alcohol and more lounges.
So for me removal of First on BA would mean no overnight flights on BA metal and selective use on shorter (up to 8 hours max) daytime flights where sleep is not called for.

[HonestCrew]

As crew, serving a cabin of customers should never be done in order of ‘importance’. The service, for example, in Club World should flow smoothly in one direction serving each guest as you come to them.
Crew should take the meal order in the same fashion. If after the meal order has been completed it is obvious some customers will not be able to have their first choice, we then decide who we must ask to accept an alternative.
Hopping around the cabin asking gold card holders first, then silver, then, adhocs, then staff just doesn’t look good and can make people feel less valuable, totally unacceptable.
If you are fortunate to be upgraded then of course you may expect your first choice of meal to be unavailable but you should not be made to feel you are last in the queue for service.
If I see a gold card holder has received an upgrade, I respect who they are and understand they have used BA for a long time and maybe, as another poster mentioned, their company now only pays for them to travel Club one way and Traveller Plus the other.
If whilst taking a meal order I come across a staff member, I simply ask for their preference and tell them I will do my best to ensure they receive it. Missing them out and coming back at the end highlights to other customers they are staff and this should not be done.

It is also clear reading this thread and others that the service you receive from your particular crew member makes a big difference on the enjoyment of your flight.
I pride myself on making a massive effort to everyone I serve and am a big supporter of using mystery customers to keep a tab on how well crew perform. Ensuring both positive feedback AND a kick up the backside is given when required would be beneficial for everyone.

[LuganoPirate]

For me it’s not important if I get my first meal choice or not. It’s a small space and at 36000′ you can’t exactly pop out and buy some more fish or steak! I accept that and make the best of whatever is offered.

What I expect are friendly cabin crew who will look after me during the flight, perhaps having time for a small chat, and that is more important to me than anything else.

[LeTigre]

In terms of the future, any selection of these is fine:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/five-brilliant-ideas-for-the-future-of-airline-seats-and-beds

[Author]

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