[EasternPedlar]

I’ve always wondered why airlines don’t operate seat buyback schemes, despite being so simple to implement technologically.

The BA return ticket to Delhi that I bought a few months ago for £2500 odd is now selling for over £7600. I’d be happy to flog my ticket back to BA for say £4500, allowing them to recycle it for a nice turn. Win win for all!

[Midlands Traveller]

1) Because the airline is not going to refund you more than the initial purchase price on just the chance that they might sell it. They have booked revenue on completion of the sale to you, but if they fail to sell the higher priced version then they sit on a loss.

2) Because it would create a secondary market where speculators with no intention of travelling would attempt to profit by that mechanism. No-one wants that, it would be lose – lose for pretty much everybody including the airlines.

[ASK1945]

[quote quote=1359581]2) Because it would create a secondary market where speculators with no intention of travelling would attempt to profit by that mechanism. No-one wants that, it would be lose – lose for pretty much everybody including the airlines.[/quote]

This is absolutely correct. It’s a nightmare problem in the entertainment industry, where there is industrialised manipulation by businesses, using computers which make massive purchases of tickets for high-end concerts (where sell-out is guaranteed) immediately upon release of tickets. They then put them on sale at much higher prices to individual punters.

[MartynSinclair]

I still see in my local community magazine and free papers the odd advert for buying and selling airmiles (north west London) from travel agents. I am sure the sellers do not warn passengers in this secondary / grey market that airlines can (and do) refuse boarding if they are aware the air miles were bought in such a manner.

The often used ‘gifting’ does not wear when the buyer of the airmiles does not even know where the airmiles came from.

This is not the same as someone offering to gift a friend/family member sufficient airmiles for a destination.

[ASK1945]

Martyn

You are correct: British Airways offer a “Family and Friends” list to accompany a “Household Account”. This means you can redeem for Avios reward tickets for up to five additional persons added to your list who don’t live within your household.

But it’s unlikely that a secondary market could start for these. However, the EasternPedlar’s suggestion was a completely different animal.

[MartynSinclair]

I recognize Eastern Pedlar’s suggestion was different, however, there is a comparison to the secondary airmiles market that is big in the USA.

[quote quote=1359615]But it’s unlikely that a secondary market could start for these[/quote]

@ASK1945 – there is an occasional advert in the MHUS magazine from a travel agent who advertises the buying and selling of airmiles and there are others in the area.

[ASK1945]

Martyn – I concede I don’t know about the USA market – but the OP was referring to BA and £GB.

PS: I have looked through the MHUS magazine for the last 6 years and can’t find any such adverts. Before that I was heavily involved with its production (and editor even earlier) and I don’t ever recall such an advert.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=1359654]PS: I have looked through the MHUS magazine for the last 6 years and can’t find any such adverts. Before that I was heavily involved with its production (and editor even earlier) and I don’t ever recall such an advert.[/quote]

May have been the “RH” magazine but it was a travel agent in Hendon, just off Brent Street.. I wrote into MH at the time to the magazine editors to warn then about the possible consequences.

[EasternPedlar]

Reading through the comments, a very valid point has been made about the risks of speculators coming in to play the market if seat trading was allowed. However there is already ‘price gouging’ at play- by the airlines themselves. I see absolutely no justification for one passenger being charged £7600 while the person sitting next to him has paid £2500. Tomorrow one of us could be that hapless individual who’s had no choice but to pay up and travel because of his/her compulsions. The airlines have brainwashed us into believing that what they are doing is acceptable, but I disagree.

The only thing stopping a passenger from selling his seat to another are the rules made by the airlines. An air service is a public utility and we must ask whether such rules are in public interest.

Taking the example i gave further, someone with a ticket costing £2500 might be quite happy to offer it for £3500, giving a desperate traveller a much better option than paying £7600 to the airline. Seat trading might well result in more reasonable fares!

These are initial thoughts; this undoubtedly is a complex subject meriting much deliberation before anything can be done. Yes, I’d started of by suggesting that BA should buy seats back, but it might be more workable to allow transfers between passengers with a transfer fee being payable to the airline.

1 user thanked author for this post.

JayLibove

[LuganoPirate]

[postquote quote=1359697]

I believe this was run by someone a friend of mine, also living in Hendon, and who liked a bargain, used to use. I understand he has now flown off to the great beyond so is no longer with us!

A few years ago, out of curiosity, I answered one of these ads, I can’t remember the details or how much they paid per mile, but I remember you have to give them your login details and only get paid when they take the miles.

I then rang Lufthansa to check if this was legal, or if I risked my hard earned Senator for Life status. I spoke to a supervisor who was very non-committal. The answers were “you can always buy tickets for friends or acquaintances” and “you should never give your login details to anyone”. As to the specific question, she was very evasive.

As to the selling or trading of tickets, I believe Easyjet (or is it Ryanair?) allow a name change for a fee. So if the original cost of the ticket, plus the change fee, is less than the current selling price, thus yielding a fare difference, I suppose it could be done. You’d have to buy the bare bones ticket allowing the new purchaser to add on any extras he may want, so it could I guess be profitable. It might then just be interesting to snap up those £ 2 tickets??

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ASK1945

[cwoodward]

Its all too murky and complex for me but I wish everyone well

I cant help but wonder though -did PL friend get a good deal on the seat!

(LP I very much hope that the above comment does not offend)

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LuganoPirate

[FaroFlyer]

Eastern Traveller wrote:
“An air service is a public utility and we must ask whether such rules are in public interest.”

I disagree. Although air travel is available to the public, so can therefore be deemed a public utility. It is a paid for commercially operated service. In Europe most buses and trains are also commercially operated, although they could be termed a public utility.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=1359928]Its all too murky and complex for me but I wish everyone well

I cant help but wonder though -did PL friend get a good deal on the seat!

(LP I very much hope that the above comment does not offend)[/quote]

Many years ago, I was introduced to a ‘travel agent’ by an acquaintance in north London, who sold me a ticket to Asia. It was a fair price and all went well, until I needed to delay my return due to a minor illness. When I tried to change the ticket, the airline started to ask questions about the ticket and it was quickly established this ticket had been bought through grey market airmiles and was told to contact the account holder, who I had no idea who he was to make the changes. I also spoke to my travel insurance, Amex, about the ticket and they distanced themselves from the ticket / travel insurance as their view was i had not purchased a commercially available ticket (or words to that effect).

Meanwhile, the “agent” had realised he had not billed me for the full amount for ticket, he wanted cash!. I insisted on an invoice which he refused to provide and then started a sequence of events that included me having to make a complaint to the police for harassments and threats.

My advice for the UK at least, is NEVER buy airmiles from the grey market or an agent.

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LuganoPirate, LondonAndy70, ASK1945

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