[AMcWhirter]

Today’s Greenpeace report will come as no surprise to readers.

The report features a multitude of services within mainland Europe plus Eurostar and two Anglo-Scottish routes from London.

In general the price differences varied between twice and roughly eight or nine times the cost.

The comparison between the two modes is somewhat unfair because some of the fares shown are with LCCs (low-cost airlines) whose prices can vary depending on how far ahead you book. Rail’s pricing policy is not so fine-tuned.

But The Times gets it right concerning domestic flights in France.

The Times says “France promised to ban short-haul flights for routes that could be taken by train as a way to reduce emissions. When the measure was introduced in May, however, so many exemptions had been added that only three routes were affected.”

This is exactly what Business Traveller has been saying for ages.

Prime example being Lyons-Paris CDG. Taking SNCF’s TGV the direct rail link (direct to CDG) takes two hours and yet Air France continues to operate multiple times daily Lyons-CDG.

[Times paywall]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/train-ticket-prices-four-times-cost-flying-europe-holidays-2023-8lk2tc8dj

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LuganoPirate, cwoodward

[LuganoPirate]

Sorry I’m a bit late to this, but I think most Lyon to Paris is done by train and I think this article is a bit misleading. City centre to city centre in just 2 hours with no airport hassle and for as little as EUR 25 booked in advance and depending on time of day.

I think the flight CDG – Lyon and vv is mainly used for onward flight connections rather than point to point.

The same goes for other European train travel. There are so many discounts, travel cards, senior cards, not to mention booking in advance for more advantageous fares. Add in all the other costs associated with air travel, or having to pay for carry on / checked baggage etc, and the difference is very narrow, and in fact I’d venture train travel could work out cheaper.

I’d say if the journey is over 4 – 5 hours by train, then train over plane, otherwise for longer inter European journeys then plane over train.

5 users thanked author for this post.

cwoodward, AMcWhirter, ASK1945, AndrewinHK, MartynSinclair

[AndrewinHK]

My thoughts exactly @LuganoPirate, I assumed that most if not all of the Lyon – CDG passengers would be in transit, rather than AF actively selling point to point, but a quick search finds AF is selling roundtrip tickets for around 110 euros, this sort of pricing, it doesn’t seem like they are actively discouraging point to point. The regulation was watered down, likely due to AF lobbying it would have a detrimental impact on its ability to compete, and one assumes some cargo is being transported on those flights, so retaining connectivity, albeit reduced, balances the economic and environmental issue, and I agree, with mainland Europe having such a good rail network, if prices were similar and journey times in the 4 hour range, it is madness to fly.

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LuganoPirate

[AMcWhirter]

Correct LP.

AF really operates those LYS-CDG flights as feeders for its long-haul network both for itself and fellow Skyteam members.

However there is nothing to stop point-to-point travellers buying a ticket on them.

I must say AF doesn’t put all its faith in SNCF because, as I noted, there is a direct TGV from Lyons to CDG with a journey time of around two hours.

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LuganoPirate

[SimonS1]

Sounds a bit like Manchester to London.

If on business in the city then the train is ideal. However if flying onwards then the connectivity makes it a non starter.

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cwoodward

[Author]

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