[Anonymous]

[hi_flier]

Hi – I’m looking to charter a private jet for a special holiday with my family, ideally utilising empty legs where possible to keep the costs down. Even with discounts it’s still an expensive way to travel so was wondering if any of the BT community have experienced flying private?

There are some obvious benefits such as no airport hassle and the ability to fly to/from local airports on your schedule but given you’re flying in a fairly small plane (looking at Citation CJ2 sized aircraft) I was wondering just how comfortable it really is!

Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[MartynSinclair]

Private jet charter has grown significantly with more and more travellers fed up with the lines and hassle factor at the airport. I travel with clients across the Atlantic as well as over to Asia, mainly in the Gulfstreeam IV, and 550.

The cost of private jet hire, boils down to the travellers flexibility. The more rigid in terms of travel dates, the costlier it will become, the more flexibility in travel dates, generally the cheaper it becomes.

Empty leg hunting is an art. Firstly though, understand in short haul European hops, empty legs (i.e. flying the aircraft revenue one way and empty back to base) doesnt happen very often in decent sized charter fleets, because generally the aircraft will be diverted some where to be positioned for the next flight. So a Luton to Nice charter, may position back to Paris or Brussels to collect the next revenue passenger.

When you are searching for empty legs, one of the worst strategies is to call every broker to register an interest in an empty leg. All that will do is drive the price up as they all use the same software to search for empty legs.

If you have a particluar route in mind, research the full cost and then calcualate, exactly what you are willing to pay, remembering the operator will have a cost factor, which he will not be willing to release the aircraft below.

There are extremes in private jet charter, the flights you see charged at well below market value, generally, stay well clear. If its bargain basement, something will have been compromised. The other extreme are the companies who promote brand new multi million $ jets, state of the art fleet, less than 3 years old. I recently entered discussions with a well known brand & the CEO had his head so far up his own back side that he didnt return my call after I commented his quote was nearly 200% above what we usually pay (Europe to LA).

You are looking for the one off trip to take the family, depending how many you are and the distance, one alternative to consider is something like a King Air jet prop. Try to stay clear of departing from the big airports, where landing and handling fees can bump up the cost and also try to find one decent broker to search and let him earn his fee, rather than buying from the travel companies like Amex, who will only go to the broker and put a % on.

When people think of Jet charter, they automatically associate it with mega bucks. This is not necessarily the case. I describe the cost as a natural progression from economy to business, business to first and then first to private jet charter. It is only expensive if you dont fill the seats. A Gulstream, Europe to West Coast can cost $100,000 (with 1 stop) consider 10 – 12 could travel comfortably and the cost doesnt look so “mega”.

Good luck and let me know if I can be of any further help….

Just for the record, I am not a jet/charter broker….

[AirOneJets]

Hi,

We can offer you empty leg at lowest price, kindly send me your trip details and your budget.

Regards
AirOne Jets Private Charter

[AirOneJets]

Kindly send me your trip and contact details at <a href="mailto:[email protected]“>[email protected]

Regards
Ambreen

http://www.aironejetsprivatecharter.com

[Tallinnman]

hi_flier

You’ve mentioned the comfort/cost factor of a CJ2 and also using local airports.

Martin was discussing long haul flights and he clearly knows what he is looking for and has a great approach to get it. Also the aircraft he is travelling in offer facilities well above what can be offered on the smaller aircraft you are considering. Not sure I’d want more than 6 passengers on a long haul flight though, particularly overnight.

Filling the seats on a CJ2 or any ‘light jet’ will not make the journey particularly comfortable, especially over 2 hours and you may be surprised at how little baggage you can bring and how cramped it can be onboard. If you’ve played Twister then you’ll have an idea of what it is like to use the toilet on a small jet with all the seats filled. It is still ‘exciting’ being with friends and family but catering will be nowhere near up to the calibre of long haul business. Think more cold buffet on platters that you serve yourselves. You can enjoy some decent wines though!

You mention cost – the catering can also be extremely expensive, relative I know. Also on cost the ‘myth’ of empty legs, particularly in Europe is not the reality. They are still relatively expensive compared to Business Class fares on the whole, however if you fill all the seats it helps although you lose space on board.

You mentioned wanting to use a local airport – if and I believe its a big if you find more than 1 flight that fits in with your admittedly flexible schedule, then I doubt it will be from your local airport.

You will more than likely have to travel across London or pay the additional costs to position the aircraft to your local airport. Expect to add a minimum of £1000 to the bill. If you’re looking to travel from a regional airport then your choices will be even more limited.

If your flexible, patient, prepared to travel last minute and against the flow, then I’m sure you can make it work. You could just be a lucky devil and uncover the perfect ’empty’ legs – good luck.

[hi_flier]

Thank you for your detailed and helpful responses, it’s always good to get a few opinions from people on boards like this.

It is indeed an intra-Europe flight I’m looking at booking (UK to Switzerland) and am based near Bristol where I’d be looking to fly from. Whilst I’d love to experience something like a Gulfstream, the reality is that I’d be looking at a Citation/Hawker sized jet. Interesting point re: the King Air though I don’t fancy being in a turbo-prop for 2 hours – and the kid in me really wants to fly a biz jet!

I’m keeping my eyes peeled on empty legs but I’ve received a couple of quotes for a charter – two from brokers (incl. Air Partner) and one direct from a reputable operator based at Bristol Airport. The latter has proved to be the best value though slightly concerned that booking directly leaves me with no real protection if it heads into financial difficulties. For comparison Air Partner give you this protection though you seemingly pay a premium for this.

This really is a one off as we’ve got two very young kids and my wife has missed out on the last couple of decent long haul trips we’ve taken because she’s been pregnant! So happy to fork out on this as a special occasion but obviously keen to not be silly – it’s still a lot of money!

Again, thanks for your insights. And if either of you have any thoughts on booking direct vs booking through a broker that would be much appreciated.

[Tallinnman]

Phil at the Bristol company I think you mean is by far the best contact as you need to travel from Bristol – drop him a line outlining the where, why and how much.

Very reputable.

There are 2 other options but I’m not sure about posting commercial links to companies on this forum. 1 is an operator of Mustangs out of Blackbushe. 4 seat aircraft and no toilet but little difference. The other is the many new websites proclaiming to have unearthed the holy grail of ’empty legs’.

Think PM would be a great addition of the site as I do not want to be seen promoting businesses to anybody other than the thread starter.

Keep us posted with happens and how!

[hi_flier]

@Tallinnman – yes we’re talking about the same provider at Bristol so great to hear a recommendation.

I’ve looked at the company based out of Blackbushe but I’m not so keen on the Mustang. It does look awfully small and I’m not too sure my wife would like the experience that much!

I’ll keep you posted though on what I end up doing. Thanks for your help.

p.s. agree on the PM functionality. With so many recommendations flowing through this site it would be a useful addition.

[MartynSinclair]

If you want to compare Air Charter try RSS Jet Centre. I found Air Charter to be a little on the high side, but again its horses for courses.

I would imagine that the brokers such as Air Charter and RSS, are unlikely to provide low quotes on Hawkers which are mid range Jets. You need to find a little bit of luck with an Operator, who just happens to have a larger jet aircraft available and your particular travel date.

I will put myself out on a limb here, I would imagine the cost, based on a 1 way and you not having to pay for an empty leg back to base, to be in the region of £5,000-£7,000 for a CJ / Small jet, increasing to around £8-10,000 for a mid range, if you can avoid a chain of too many brokers adding their 10%’s.

How to get into a Gulfstream – its possible but you will need to do homework. US Operators have worldwide floating fleets of Gulfstreams, you could hit lucky that one has positioned into London area and needs to depart with its next passenger load from Zurich / Geneva and if they see revenue, they will bite. Some US registered Gulfstreams, have hourly operating costs for hire of around US$9,000. Operators are desperate to increase revenue, keeping crews in hotels and aircraft parked costs and every hour of revenue flight, defrays the costs. I am not comfortable posting the details of the operators here, but will let you have details if you ask BT to provide my email address. One word of warning though, there are some restrictions on certain registered aircraft accepting revenue passengers in Europe.

As Tallinman states, catering can be expensive and the food dire. All the FBO’s do is go to the catering companies, order suitable food and stick 10% and by the time the food reaches the aircraft, it has quadrupled in price with everyone adding their bit.

I have one family I fly from London who insist on the catering coming from the north London deli’s. I am able to fill a Gulfstream with enough meat, fish, bread’s, savouries, cheese, fruit and drink for 6 people, London to LA, with open food service, i.e. food on the roll, for less than £300. The crews always comment how nicely the aircraft smells with the constant smell of freshly baked food. My advice, is to get quotes for flights with no catering and then ask your favourite restaurant to supply suitable food to the FBO 1 hour before departure. They will get a kick out of supplying to the aircraft and you will be eating food you like at a third of the price.

[Ellwood]

Another word of warning on the N registered planes that do not have the right licenses and approvals to take revenue pax in Europe.

If you take one of these, and sometimes they are offered by unscrupulous brokers and if you don’t check yourself you won’t know. When you get on, the pilot asks you to say the owner is a friend who has leant it to you for no charge if any of the authorities ask questions.

The biggest problem here is that any insurance you think will be covering you will not be valid.

[MartynSinclair]

Hence only deal with the Operator who hold the licenses and avoid brokers (like the one above)….

Operators are liable for the operation of the flight, brokers will dissappear once they have collected commission and take no responsibility for what may or may not happen and whether its legal or not.

EDIT – for “brokers will dissppear” amend / read – brokers who can not be thoroughly researched………!

[TiredOldHack]

All fascinating stuff. I remember travelling on a Ford press trip to Jerez in Spain (vehicle testing), and they flew us hacks out in a B737 configured all-business. A bit like BA’s service from LCY to the US, but this was about 12-13 years ago.

We flew out of Luton, IIRC.

Very nice.

The aircraft actually stayed parked at Jerez for the two days we were bashing things around the circuit, because it was cheaper to do that and put the crew up in a hotel than to rotate it back to the UK and out again.

The cabin crew loved it – when we re-embarked, they all greeted us ecstatically, sporting lovely suntans, and wishing aloud they could have more jobs like that one.

[VintageKrug]

Is the British Airways A318 available for private charter? It does have down days when the service does not operate, though obviously these are usually maintenance days.

Might be just what you’re looking for!

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/cwlcexp/public/en_gb

[MartynSinclair]

If you are looking for a 319 to charter, google G-NOAH.

Very rarely available for charter, but a very smart interior.

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