[AMcWhirter]

Last May we posted a news piece regarding Norse’s plans to operate three routes between London LGW and the Caribbean. See the link below dated May 4.

But things didn’t go according to plan.

* Kingston was axed before it even started.

* Flights to the remaining two destinations, Barbados and Montego Bay, which were supposed to launch on October 29 were put back to December 1. Flight frequency was trimmed.

So these two routes did indeed launch earlier this month but, after just six weeks of operation, flight frequency is being cut back to a mere one flight a week (with an extra flight on a couple of occasions).

This reduced schedule is effective from mid-January through to the end of the winter flying season.

Norse must be finding the Caribbean a challenge. It is having to compete with well-established BA and Virgin Atlantic.

US-based Ishrion Aviation notes, “Norse has cut a disproportionate 64% of its schedule versus what was originally on sale in July 2023. The carrier drastically overpublished what it sold versus what it now intends to fly.”

Norse Atlantic to launch routes from Gatwick to Barbados, Kingston and Montego Bay

[LaWhore]

Norse will fail just like all the long haul low cost predecessors. This business model does not work over the Atlantic.

[Rferguson2]

Agree with you LaWhore.

I cannot for the life of me understand what the owners of Norse were thinking basically relaunching the same company with the same strategy that massively tanked.

Locos generally charge low fares because they make the bulk of their money from add ons and auxiliaries as well as benefit from short turnaround times resulting in higher aircraft utilisation than a legacy competitor.

An example; tonight I will fly Ryanair from Manchester to Dublin departing at 22:55. Having a look at FlightRadar24 I can see the aircraft operating my route started the day in Dublin, flew to LGW and back, then to Milan and back, followed by Liverpool and back. Then it will fly to Manchester to collect me and back to Dublin.

An impressive eight sectors in a day. Eight opportunities to charge for checked bags, cabin bags, check in desk fees, onboard catering, seat selection, speedy boarding, travel insurance…the list goes on.

Now to compare to Norse flight from LGW to somewhere in the Caribbean. They will get two sectors out of that aircraft which is no better than their legacy competitors. They will need two sets of crews to operate the two sectors as well as pay for crew transport and accommodation – exactly the same as their legacy competitors. And, crucially they will only have two opportunities to charge for all those additional add ons.

The only successful longhaul loco’s have really been Jetstar and Scoot, both owned by the large legacy carriers in their home market. They thrive because they don’t compete with the dominant legacy carrier, they will complement. Jetstar longhaul flies routes that Qantas abandoned previously due to lack of profit (eg Cairns – Tokyo), Qantas would not launch due to lack of profit (eh Sydney – Ho Chi Minh) or routes with such high leisure demand there can be a dual loco/premium strategy (eg Sydney – Bali/Fiji). The likes of Jetstar and Scoot also benefit from the leverage their legacy owners can use in negotiating beneficial aircraft leasing terms, fuel hedges etc.

I honestly believe the writing is on the wall for Norse and have thought so ever since it was (re)launched.

7 users thanked author for this post.

red_robbo, Bullfrog, sparkyflier, AMcWhirter, onajetplane, GivingupBA, AlanOrton1

[onajetplane]

And yet they have also just announced an even longer route, flying JFK – Athens Summer 24!? Definitely not an airline I have any confidence in, and would only consider a last-minute emergency booking if absolutely necessary.

[Londonsteve]

It strikes me one of the main challenges to the Norse business model is the relative unaffordability of holidaying in the US at the moment. Europeans have historically been suckers for cheap TATL flights, ads like ‘New York from £200’ have proven very successful for carriers, the issue is that too many of us know that a cheap flight is now the start of a very expensive trip.

Targeting price sensitive US travellers to Europe would make sense, thing is, achieving market recognition AND convincing travellers to give up the well-known names and frequencies, especially from key hubs like JFK strikes me as pushing treacle uphill. Relative to Europe, even price conscious US consumers are not so hard up they’re that interested in saving $200 on a return fare when their stay in Europe will inevitably cost 1000s. They’re not shy of pushing the boat out while on holiday and relative to the average European a US traveller is twice as well-off these days.

[Rferguson2]

@ Londonsteve, good point.

I think also, demographics have changed since COVID. According to IAG ‘Premium Leisure’ demand now makes up the bulk of the bums on seats in the Premium cabins having taken over from the traditional business types.

Norse will completely miss out on getting a slice of this market with its product topping out at ‘Premium’ economy. At the same time, the legacy carriers are often of a similar price (or sometimes undercut) for economy and I know who I would pick if I had a choice between BA/Virgin or Norse.

An example. LGW – JFK in APR. Out 9/4 back 16/4. BA £348rtn. Norse £389.

1 user thanked author for this post.

sparkyflier

[AMcWhirter]

@onajetplane Norse has also decided to extend its Oslo-Bangkok service through the summer 2024 season.

Originally it was supposed to be winter only but there will be a twice weekly schedule from end May to early September.

As for the Athens route, Norse will face stiff competition for its x5 weekly service from other non-stop carriers and its departure time from Athens isn’t ideal.

Yes I agree the departure times may be amended closer to the route launch but, right now, the departure time varies every day.

1 user thanked author for this post.

onajetplane

[cwoodward]

Will Norse still be around next Christmas ? I suspect not – at least not with its present structure.

1 user thanked author for this post.

sunman2017

[sparkyflier]

They are making life harder for themselves by focusing on routes with plenty of competition.

On the Caribbean how about Havana, Punta Cana or Puerto Vallarta (I know not technically in the Caribbean but maybe a plausible route?)
?

1 user thanked author for this post.

YorkshireTraveller

[sandiego1]

Norse isn’t low cost when you add second meals, which are extra, reserved seats are £95 each way to Barbados at the front of the cabin although only £20 each way if you would like a middle seat on the back row. The price also doesn’t include drinks but looking at the seating plans for mid-January the flights are virtually empty. They have chosen to leave the plane on the island overnight so flights leave the UK on Fridays to Barbados and return on Saturday night thus keeping accommodation costs for crew at the lowest possible, but for passengers booking hotels, they have to book 8 or 15 nights, adding more cost to their holiday. As others have suggested, this is not a sustainable proposition

[AMcWhirter]

Mystery surrounds Norse’s plans for the Caribbean this coming winter.

As we reported last December Norse intended to operate a limited schedule to Barbados and Montego Bay and indeed the flights had been placed on sale.

But now these two Caribbean routes have been removed from the Norse website.

Norse Atlantic puts 2024-25 winter flights to Caribbean on sale

[AndrewinHK]

Norse seems to be lost, they have strong competition from BA, VS and TUI which have extensive operations in the Caribbean and both have holiday arms to fill seats and sell packages, and with BA/VS operating more/all Caribbean flights from LHR the offering is arguably stronger than before, with better lounges, and BA using LHR configured aircraft.

1 user thanked author for this post.

cwoodward

[cwoodward]

“Norse seems to be lost” as in my view was always likely to be the case and that of its predecessor.

The annual results just published are a catastrophic by any reading and as Andrew mentions the business not sustainable……and was never going to be.

[CheerUp]

Norse to start CPT in October this year 3x weekly.

LGW 20:00 — CPT 09:30
CPT 11:45 — LGW 21:35

787-9

1 user thanked author for this post.

sparkyflier

[cwoodward]

A good route but will they still be flying in October ?

1 user thanked author for this post.

CheerUp

[Author]

Posts