[transtraxman]

So London´s mayor wants to leave his mark – heaven help us. This matter of numbering or naming the Overground lines has to be thought out rationally.

Naming the lines means you have to think of names and colours for each line. That would make the TfL map very cluttered, which is the last thing you want. It has to be easily readable, “on the go”, even in poor light. That is on a smartphone or a TfL card map.

On the other hand, if you number the Overground lines you do not need to think of new or different colours. Also for visibility, the map would not get cluttered and be easily readable while walking (via smartphone or card), and instantly distinguishable even while retaining the orange colour for all Overground lines. The numbers can then be embedded in the lines – just like bus/tram routes. That would make them different from the Underground but immediately recognisable.
The same would be valid for the DLR. Thus we would end up having DLR1 to DLR6 (or whatever the number) with O1 to O6 for the Overground. Simple to understand and use.

In the end it will work out to be much cheaper to produce. Thus we all win.

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Nick Pike

[cwoodward]

‘So London´s mayor wants to leave his mark – heaven help us. This matter of numbering or naming the Overground lines has to be thought out rationally.’

The arrogance of the man ( a largely failed Mayor) is beyond belief. A Boris line would at least have had some credibility although I believe not at all desirable.

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CheamTraveller

[AMcWhirter]

Here in London it is the Mayor’s decision to extend ULEZ out to the boundaries of the M25 which is getting all the attention.

It is scheduled to take effect from August 29.

The radio chat shows are literally swamped with angry callers.

Not everyone can afford to buy an approved car and traders with diesel vans will suffer … unless, as I expect, the ULEZ fee will be passed on to the customer.

The main issue is for those who live in the outer areas where public transport is not good (compared to areas within the South and North Circular roads where ULEZ already exists).

Hence one of the Mayor’s solutions is the Superloop bus network on which we reported a couple of days ago.

[AndrewinHK]

Failed mayor? He is controversial for sure, but he has won 2 Mayoral elections, so I think failed is a bit harsh. Apart from Hong Kong, It can be argued that London has one of the best transport networks of any major city and certainly for a historic city, London’s network is impressive. TFL is a well run organization, the continued investment into the network is evident. The ULEZ I agree with it, but I can also understand why so many are vexed, public transport is not cheap in London, and often not a substitute for a car, but if the network can be expanded and adjusted to ensure better coverage, public transit does work.

[cwoodward]

Winning elections in a largely labour left leaning London where 80% of the MPs and many of local councils are of the radical left variety is hardly the feat of the century.
The transport system benefited from not one jot from input from this Mayor with his only input being to implead the running of it.

Certainly he is more than happy to accept all and every plaudit going around re matters to which he had no input of any value and the arrogance of the fellow is beyond belief.
As Alex eludes to his politically motivated ridicules and hated charging scheme seems to have rather hit the buffers.

This conversation has become a fundamentally political one Andrew which I consider not to be appropriate for this forum thus I will contribute no further unless it morphs back into being about business travel.

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Cedric_Statherby

[cwoodward]

Apoligies for the misspelling above the intended word is of course – ridiculous

[AndrewinHK]

cwoodward you infer that I steered the conversation towards the political, I commented on your word choice ‘failed’, by stating a fact that winning something twice is the opposite of that. Back to the thread topic, I think numbers make more sense, and are perhaps easier to remember, but I have a soft spot for the use of names/colours, but agree it becomes less feasible the bigger the network gets.

[cwoodward]

Pleased to give you the last word re London mayors Andrew.

Do you have anything new to say re business travel perchance ?

[AMcWhirter]

AndrewinHK wrote:

Apart from Hong Kong, It can be argued that London has one of the best transport networks of any major city and certainly for a historic city, London’s network is impressive. TFL is a well run organization, the continued investment into the network is evident. The ULEZ I agree with it, but I can also understand why so many are vexed,

Hello AndrewinHK,

Not sure if you realise the ULEZ will be extended so far outside London.

Yes Londoners have good public transport within the boundaries of the North and South Circular but the situation is quite different between the latter and the M25.

As I noted above not only are many people using non-compliant cars but the many traders (plumbers, electricians, window fitters etc) with non-compliant vans must either travel within the expanded zone or travel in from outside.

(High London property prices now oblige a lot of these traders to relocate outside the M25)

I can therefore see the new ULEZ fees being charged by traders to their customers.

ULEZ operates 24 hours a day.

Here is a more info and a map of the planned extension.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-expansion-2023

[MartynSinclair]

AMcWhirter wrote:

Yes Londoners have good public transport within the boundaries of the North and South Circular but the situation is quite different between the latter and the M25.

I agree that London does have an excellent public transport. I used the Elizabeth Line (Purple) and Northern Line (Black) to get home this morning. It took only 30 minutes longer than a mini cab, but saved me close to $100. I also went to Heathrow the same way.

If I am reading this thread correctly, I support the Mayor’s attempt to redefine London overground. I have lived in London for nearly 40 years and the only overground service I regularly use is the the Thames Link from north London to south London and occasionally the DLR to London City. In a few weeks time, I need to go to Sidcup and only just realised there is an overground service which I could use.

However, I have absolutely no idea of the overground train system, the routes, names of the lines (or if indeed they have names).

Out of curiosity, why has the London overground service never had the PR / design treatment of a decent route map that clearly shows options, names of lines etc. My only option at the moment is to use something like “trainline” to see what goes where…

[TominScotland]

As someone who does not live in London, I envy you folks your connectivity whenever I do visit.

Names or numbers for overground train services? Come on, its a no-brainer!! Do we really want to emulate Soviet-era No 4 Tractor Factory naming practices? Names have soul, numbers are soul-less. Think of the former cabinet minister who named his 6th born Sixtus – how much better would Darren have sounded!! I would have hated to be called Quintus…..

[Chris in Makati]

MartynSinclair wrote:

Out of curiosity, why has the London overground service never had the PR / design treatment of a decent route map that clearly shows options, names of lines etc. My only option at the moment is to use something like “trainline” to see what goes where…

For navigating around London on public transport can I suggest the use of the excellent “Citymapper” app?

You tell it where you want to go and it finds you the quickest route using whatever combination of bus, Underground, DLR, Overground, Tram, or walking is most appropriate. It apparently has access to public transport schedules and can detect real-time delays on the network to give you the fastest route.

It actually covers a lot more cities worldwide than just London.

Available for iOS and Android.

https://citymapper.com/ios

https://citymapper.com/android

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LondonAndy70

[Author]

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