[Binman62]

Advice please.
Last December as a result of the snow chaos at LHR, my flight was cancelled. A group of us got talking and we agreed to hire a car and get to the Hoek of Holland and home that way.
In the end 4 adults and 2 kids agreed to share costs and we hired a minibus. Only 1 of us knew the route and so he drove.

In the new year I received a fine from hertz as an admin charge and thereafter from the Dutch police for speeding. This happened as my credit card had been used for pay for the bus but I never actually drove the vehicle at any stage.

I provided the Dutch police with the details of the driver including licence number, address and contact number, as well as similar details for a witness. I did this as the driver refused to accept liability and indeed had not paid his full share of the costs.

The Openbaar Ministerie have now said that it does not matter who was driving and that the registered keeper is responsible.

I would normally not fight such a fine but the fact I was not driving makes me feel that this is simply not just, but on the other hand I do not want to get stuck at some future date in a Dutch prison

Any advice, experience of such treatment. thanks

[Anonymous]

[RichHI1]

As stated, in the Netherlands the speeding tickets are the liability of the owner of the vehicle or in your case renter.
Therefore it is you and not the driver who have to pay. Pay up and be more careful who you let drive any vehicle next time.
Sorry I cannot sugar coat it. Joys of motoriing in foreign countries with different rules, I am afraid.

[LuganoPirate]

Binman, I hope I can be a bit more positive. You were not the registered keeper, nor the driver and presumably the driver was registered with Hertz to drive.

Immediately dispute the charge with your cc co. They will refund you and take it up with Hertz. Secondly protest to the ministry that you are not the registered keeper.

Worse that can happen is they stop you at AMS. Dispute again and refuse to pay. A judge may have heard the case and ordered you to pay or 5 days jail. Tell them you’ll do the time. You have the choice so take it. The jails are full. The police don’t have the time for such a trivial matter and you’ll be on your way.

If they call your bluff, which they won’t, you can always pay. This has happened to me several times and I’ve always got away with it. I have a car there used by others who leave the fines for me. I refuse to pay on principal as I always give the driver details and I find it wrong.

Alternatively, as Rich says, pay up and chalk it down to experience!!!

[Swissdiver]

Well I have my own experience with speeding in the Netherlands with a rented car… It was about 10 years ago. Was coming back from Germany and didn’t adapt my speed.

I received the fine at home (non EU) and didn’t really pay attention to it nor to the reminder. A couple of years later, I was transiting through Schiphol. At the border, a police officer asked me to follow her (a somewhat frightening experience – not the proudest time of my life) and explained that I didn’t pay the fine. At that time I honestly forgot the whole story and questioned the whole thing. So could continue my trip for this time but was asked to write to I can’t remember which office to ask for details.

Bottom line, don’t play foul games with the Dutch authorities…

[Binman62]

All….thanks for the updates. I have no intention of playing games with anyone and the fine is just 39 Euro. There is however a principle at stake here. I was not driving, I did not commit the offence and I have provided the details of the idiot who was, as well as details of witnesses
I am both bitter about how someone took advantage of the kindness of strangers and abused our trust, and I am incensed that my good name is being damaged, albeit for a minor traffic violation. Some have argued that I have probably escaped more times than I have been caught and that paying this fine makes up for them. I can’t say I agree with that.
The Dutch letter states clearly that the registered keeper is liable and in this case that is me because my credit card was used. The other individual was also named on the agreement along with his driving licence number. I may even name him at some stage but he knows who he was (4A BA940 20th December 2010).
If I were trying to avoid naming the driver I could very well understand the attitude of the Dutch authorities. As it is I am more than happy to name the pillock.
I want to avoid the hassle of being stopped at AMS or anywhere else for that matter and to understand that it can and does happen helps me work out what to do next.

As I have no intention of going to AMS anytime soon my view is that I will continue to appeal where possible and perhaps get some legal advice here……………..It is so unjust.

[RichHI1]

Binman it is not unjust, it is the law in the Netherlands.
You can seek legal advice perhaps to recover the 39 EUR in a tortious suit but for 39EUR?
The unfortunate part is you trusted a stranger who repaid your kindness with contempt both for the law and for your interests.
I would suggest though that the Dutch Authorities are unlikely to see your good name as compromisedin any way because the car you hired exceeded the speed limit.
Should you try to avoid your legal responsibilities though your name will be compromised in Dutch and perhaps other EU jurisidictions.

[Binman62]

RicHII1, just because something is law does not make it just or right.

This particular Dutch law law is patently an ass, as it assumes that because you rented a vehicle that you are wholly responsible for the actions of the driver. The logical extension of this is that when you rent a seat on a plane, train or boat you somehow take responsibility for the actions of Captain, Driver or Master.

The driver is the only person who should be held responsible and this law is meerly a convenient means of collecting revenue.

If nothing else I will fight this to the point where this issues has cost the Dutch far more than the 39 Euro the might get from me. They can start by providing a copy of the picture they are using to justify the violation.

[RichHI1]

Binman, I sympathize with your predicament and I understand why you feel wronged.
My wish is that you realize that you have been wronged by the driver not by the Dutch authorities. The behavior of the driver has resulted in you being liable for a 39 EUR penalty,
You have every right to explore all appeals and do everything within the law to reach a settlement with the Dutch Authorities.
The purpose of the posts is solely to ensure that you do not further disadvantage yourself by not complying with your legal obligations.

[MartynSinclair]

Binman62 – if you do follow LP’s suggestion and it backfires, please give the judge your BT access details. If the judge posts where you have been sent, i will gladly send you 5 days worth of reading material.

For euros 39, I wouldnt play chess. Presume there are points on license and it does not have to be disclosed to UK insurer??

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Binman

My advice is pay up and recover.

If you don’t pay, not only could it queer your pitch in the Netherlands, but it could also impact any travel you do to the US (e.g. if they convict you in absentia, or even arrest you when you pass through), that’s enough to remove ESTA and cause you to have to apply in person for a visa.

Do you have the person’s current contact details? If so, write to him and let him know he owes you 39 euro.

If he doesn’t pay up, give him 7 + 7 day reminders and then sue him in the small claims court, assuming he is UK based.

[NTarrant]

Binman – I would take Disgusted advice as it could impact on you in future. You can go to a solicitor, you can get 30 mins of advice free. Whilst you can claim in the small claims court you can still be left without your EUR39.00.

I understand the principle, you help someone out and thats how they repay you. Just out of interest, why didn’t you drive with directions?

There is also debt collection agencies.

[Binman62]

Thanks everyone. on balance I think disgusted and others are right, pay and chalk it up to experience.

As for me driving, that was the plan, we were going to share. Bizarrely and despite decades of travel, I had no idea how far the the Hoek was from Dusseldorf. before I knew it we were there and by that time the speed trap had caught us.

It was a nightmare weekend, delayed 11 hours outbound on the 17th including 5 hours on board the aircraft at the gate. Coming back we had 5 hours on board at Dusseldorf before the flight was canned. Hideous experience…..so I suppose I really should get over it and just pay….thanks again everyone.

[LuganoPirate]

€39. That would be one days jail Martyn, so you’ll save on the postage!

Seriously, Binman, the Dutch are being very lenient here so before it escalates I’d just pay. I was hit with €110 for being 15kms over the limit on the highway and they sent the fine to Switzerland.

It is an unjust law, but so many people were claiming it was not them driving but mr. Lee from hong kong, that they made the owner pay, on the basis if you can trust someone well enough to drive your car, you should know them well enough to get the money back.

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