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This topic contains 42 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  SimonS1 5 Feb 2019
at 08:46
.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 43 total)

  • Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    It’s moderated.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Of course using a phrase like “a radical muslim, I believe a Somali” is racist.

    It may or may not be racist, depending on context.

    If somebody is ** known ** to be a radical Muslim (and some openly admit it) then stating that you believe him to be Somali is possibly stupid, but not racist, if based on no evidence.

    If you state that you believe somebody to be a radical Muslim, it’s not racist. It’s an opinion, and if based on nothing but appearance, it’s a stupid and ignorant one. If that person is carrying a placard stating, as was seen in London once ‘death to all Juice (sic)‘ then it is reasonable, and not racist, to state that he is a ‘radical Muslim’, (or just a nutter!).

    If you state that all people of ‘x’ race are thieves, or stink, or whatever, that is clearly racist.

    I think most people on forums such as this are intelligent enough not to post racist remarks, on the other hand it does appear that some are not able understand what ‘racist’ means. Unless of course some are just looking for an argument and a reason to criticise, which is destructive.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    canucklad
    Participant

    Alas, it simply comes down to a question of lines…

    And as someone who was brought up with British Colombian liberal values, I find it wholly repugnant that someone ,elsewhere ( Twitter boy) gets to decide where those lines are.

    Worse still, chooses a methodology of attack on a magazine/publication , that clearly promotes equality and understanding via the simple premise that this fantastic world we all share is the best village to conduct business in

    And it seems to me, that whenever fellow contributors cross a line, on this forum, others quickly respond and explain why “THEIR” belief line has been crossed….

    Isn’t that a civilised ,and more importantly,an educational debate/ discussion rather than a lecturing of self indulgent clap trap ?


    canucklad
    Participant

    Apologies, I should have said intellectual debate


    SimonS1
    Participant

    It’s moderated.

    Well not very well then,if it takes someone on Twitter to have you delete such offensive material weeks later.

    Keep digging.


    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    Thank you. I feel we are getting somewhere.


    Inquisitive
    Participant

    I believe present BT moderation policy is good enough. Internet allows people post anything without the suffering the consequences; so many people get embolden to post racist or vile comments

    On this question, it can be a both of self moderation and BT moderation.
    When many poster reporting a post as inappropriate, then BT takes action, so it works well. BT can institute a rule say, if 5 (or 10) other posters report a post as inappropriate, then it shall be taken out.
    And as owner of this site BT has every right to take down any post any time as per the editorial policy.
    If a poster believes something must be said (even if that seen as racist by others), he or she shall be courageous enough to use full name, contact and email and these shall be verifiable like letter to editors.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    When many poster reporting a post as inappropriate, then BT takes action, so it works well. BT can institute a rule say, if 5 (or 10) other posters report a post as inappropriate, then it shall be taken out.

    And as owner of this site BT has every right to take down any post any time as per the editorial policy.

    If a poster believes something must be said (even if that seen as racist by others), he or she shall be courageous enough to use full name, contact and email and these shall be verifiable like letter to editors.

    The obvious flaw in your argument is a) the software only allows the post to be reported once and b) BT didn’t take the content down until embarrassed by someone on Twitter. So clearly the model doesn’t work well.

    As far as showing name and contact details, well you must be a bit naive to think these should be visible to all. No forum does this (unless you want to have your personal details compromised) but of course BT has contact details when we register and could re-verify these periodically if needed.


    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    But you know why we didn’t immediately delete it.

    I’m fine with you disagreeing with that decision, but to pretend that the forum is
    a) not moderated or,
    b) you don’t know why we initially kept the post
    is disingenuous.

    And embarrassed? No. We were being called a platform for racism and I personally was being called a racist. That’s not embarrassment, it’s being accused of something very serious.

    So we’ve had to change. And that’s what this thread is about and how to avoid the problem in the future. Your answer is .. well, so we go round in circles…


    MarcusGB
    Participant

    A few more years ago on this Forum, before the whole site was changed, it reaLly became very abusive, dominated by a few, very a pro one particular Airline, just degraded this space into something that was often out of the ranges of lawful.
    You would think that “Business Traveller” would have members who would know how to behave, adopt a “Business like” approach, as in their work role.

    So i welcome guidances, rules, Policies or at least a “Code of Conduct”. As a member of the Professions, we have Codes of Conduct and Licences, that govern our behaviour. If we vary from this, we have not only employer regulations and procedures, but your licence to practice and hold ability to work! Placing an argument or debate, does not mean others cannot, or disagree with you, and would not be acceptable if you turned to abusive or sarcastic replies in the real Business world. We are a richer forum, for the diverse views, and from different places in The World, that give us the ability to learn and gain knowledge as a result. I can disagree professionally at work, walk away and have no changed feelings or attitudes to others. That is Professional conduct, so why not on here?>

    The use of Internet and Social Media has grown today, with an ugly face of those that hide behind an identity to be abusive to others, and calls to have this regulated are now inevitable. I welcome guidance and an oversight on here from the BT Team, and i hope that many contributors will voice their views, often insights for many of us not accessing or experiencing their travels or areas.

    BT is a great Resource, a collection of people from many backgrounds, experiences, cultures, and places. So it should be valued, and not a place for abuse or anything bordering unlawful, in today’s society.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    But you know why we didn’t immediately delete it.

    I’m fine with you disagreeing with that decision, but to pretend that the forum is

    a) not moderated or,

    b) you don’t know why we initially kept the post

    is disingenuous.

    And embarrassed? No. We were being called a platform for racism and I personally was being called a racist. That’s not embarrassment, it’s being accused of something very serious.

    So we’ve had to change. And that’s what this thread is about and how to avoid the problem in the future. Your answer is .. well, so we go round in circles…

    Honestly, I don’t know why you kept the post after it was reported (presumably because you thought it was acceptable?).

    And if so I don’t know why you then deleted it (presumably because that stance didn’t stand up when challenged?).


    capetonianm
    Participant

    SimonS1 :
    Are you so perfect that you you have never, in your entire life, made an error of judgement or changed your mind about something?
    Rhetorical question, answer not required or expected.


    PeterCoultas
    Participant

    I missed the post that has caused this apparently rather overblown response…..could you please repost for 24 hours so I can make up my own mind rather than relying on partisan comments ?

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    SimonS1 :

    Are you so perfect that you you have never, in your entire life, made an error of judgement or changed your mind about something?

    Rhetorical question, answer not required or expected.

    No need for any rhetoric, as I am quite happy to answer.

    The answer is yes, of course, however when it happens I like to think I put my hands up rather than try to bluster my way out. If the answer here is BT made an error of judgement in not deleting the material more quickly, why not just say so. Or say ‘I thought it was OK, however on second reading clearly it wasn’t so we have now dealt with it’. However please don’t claim that the forum is moderated when it clearly took an outsider on Twitter to generate a response.

    Anyway the point has been made, your perogative not to agree if you think the words used were acceptable, but I will leave it there.


    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    OK, to cut and paste what I’ve said previously..

    “Obviously we remove racist (and homophobic) comments, but I also believe that the forum largely moderates itself, and when someone expresses such opinions, other forum users disagree with them and we achieve something by the debate…”

    “Unfortunately this doesn’t work when people can highlight the problem post, simulate outrage, put it on Twitter and then whip up a sh#tstorm about how we are approving whatever opinion has been expressed (it’s a forum, if there was no disagreement, there’d be no forum).”

    So that’s what happened. I believed that argument was better than censorship. That leaving the post there on page 4 of a thread which had discussed the security at LHR was possible because other forum posters pointed out that the post in question was out of order, factually wrong and not pertinent to the thread.

    And so it stood for weeks.

    And many disgareed with me. But there we are.

    Then it went into Twitter and I became a racist.

    You say I was mistaken all along. Maybe I was. I believed in debate. So now we can’t have a debate I’m asking you all what you’d like instead.

    I can delete anything I think might offend anyone. Because we shouldn’t give oxygen to these opinions. I get it. It’s very topical at the moment in the context of universities..

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/02/government-tells-universities-to-protect-free-speech-on-campus

    1 user thanked author for this post.
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