[Anonymous]

[LeTigre]

Just noticed this news article:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7777db18-7cb8-11e1-8a27-00144feab49a.html#axzz1raEJLReR

Key points:
-Emirates wants night flights at Heathrow
-It proposes using only quiet aircraft like A380
-It also proposes a steeper decent at 5.5 degrees instead of 3 degrees
-It further plans to land the aircraft 1km down the runway
-It suggests allowing these flights between 1 and 4 am
-It’s new measures, aside from using quieter aircraft aim to reduce noise to surrounding areas by 20%
-If successful, Emirates would introduce two new daily A380 flights at 1 and 4 in the morning
-Heathrow Noise Association described the proposals as “not quiet enough”
-BAA welcomes the move

Analysis (from me):

Unlike those preventing the development of Heathrow, Emirates is thinking ahead. By the end of this year, all five of Emirates daily rotations will be operated by A380s which means that after obtaining all the slots it can and using the largest aircraft possible it will have no further ways of increasing capacity. Night-flights is an ideal solution that is well timed.

The Government is due to consult this year on changes to night-flight policy at Heathrow which are to come in from 2014. After being told by Mott MacDonald and E&Y today that RAF Northolt is virtually impossible to turn into a third runway, the Government is surely desperate for solutions to the toxic Heathrow issue. Allowing quiet planes at night is perhaps the least dangerous temporary solution, even compared with mixed-mode usage.

One potential problem is the steep descent causing safety questions to be raised but if the Government becomes determined to allow some expansion of night flights, anything is possible.

[RichHI1]

Would this not require BAA to operate the terminal including security 24 hours? Would this not also require additional rail and underground services. Currently virtually everythin closes. Maybe it would work if there were some more flights proposed but for two extra flights the increased overheads would be very large. It wiuld be great if London started to be a more 24 hour city like NYC.

[FormerlyDoS]

I propose that they maintain FL350 until BIG, chop the power, drop the gear, raise the boards, full flap, side slip and glide into 27L.

That will be very quiet, apart from the occasional loud bang,

[LuganoPirate]

Always enjoy a good laugh DoS. Can you imagine landing like that in a 380. Awesome!

The transport point is valid Rich. The 4 am landing would be ok as I think services start around 4.45. The 1am more problematic but if Emirates starts others will surely follow and then ground services to match.

[canucklad]

Are there not already mail and cargo flights through the night?

[RichHI1]

Not from LHR. The curfew is I Believe more flexible than before. I often fly AA90 which arrives just before 11pm. Over last coiple of years arrivals just after 12.00 am have been allowed in weather circmstances whereas back in 70’s and 80’s curfew was stricter. Other London airports have night flights.

[canucklad]

quite a few years ago my BA flight to Sydney was due to fepart at just before 11, had a tech problem and fimally departed off the southern runway just before 1……i’m sure if they choose the approach and departure routes apply noise abatement procedures and use quiter aircraft that would work….Although i do get woken up just after 5 when i stay in Brentford and the northern runway is being used for landing !!

Another positive to this speculation is ……how long will it be before the tree hugging brigade grab their flip flops ,arran jumpers and rasta hats and team up with the local Hyacinth marbled mouth Bucket brigade….Fire up their old Volvos and appear on the BBC as agrieved oppressed citizens fighting for whatever it is they fight for! always get a laugh at their parochial in ability to see the bigger picture!!

[LeTigre]

When it comes to noise it’s all swings and roundabouts.

The people in Osterley, Twickenham, Brentford, Southall, Hounslow and elsewhere would have an unemployment problem if it weren’t for Heathrow. Also, I live near the airport and have stayed with friends who live in those areas and they have all got used to the noise.

Où est le problème?

I think the Government could get away with allowing night flights in exchange for no expansion. A380s are so quiet anyway…especially when you’re onboard. I personally really want a flight that departs JFK at around lunchtime or early afternoon and arrives back very early the next day in LHR. I hate getting up really early to get early flights (in another country), it takes the pleasure away.

[LeTigre]

Just heard from BT that SIA is adding another A380 frequency to its LHR flights which means:

-3 SIA daily A380s
-5 Emirates daily A380s
-2 Qantas daily A380s

I have also heard that China Southern are willing to add A380 flights to London if the route is popular quite soon after launching (but probably still at least a year), they need more slots anyway. They will also have to improve the product serving this ultra competitive market in order to be taken seriously. Just saw this article about the new fares, looks like a bargain (though for a rubbish product):

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/04/02/china-southerns-canton-route-has-issues/

Korean Air will also start A380 flights to London inevitably sometime within the next 1-2 years as they have another 5 A380s on order. Malaysian Airlines A380 will be daily by the end of August this year. Thai Airways will also be launching A380 flights by the end of this year/Q1 next year after trialing some regional routes.

Qatar will of course start A380 flights to London in 2013, followed by Etihad in 2014. BA will also starts large-scale A380 operations in 2013 (looks likely to be Q2).

Anyone care for a night flight?

[RichHI1]

The problem is politics not technicalities. All through the 1990’s Concorde completely swamped the noise limits but the UK Government looked the other way as it was politically popular. Currently the UK Government is talking but doing nothing as it sees more votes in this approach. The more campaigns are made to extend and improve LHR the more likely we are to see action. If Business makes it clear it will not vote for the coalition if no action has been taken by the next election, you will see Miracles.
I would like to see limited night flights but I think runway is higher priority. I would propose a loosening of the curfew to allow delayed planes to land and take off under a broader set of circumstances. This would be minimal and could allow for a public review on actual nuisance and court public opinion.
People say the airport keeps people in work. The problem here is the protestors in the Home Counties and West London with large investments in expensive homes are not the people working at the airport, remember Jeremy on BBC airport who drove daily from Southend?

[canucklad]

Totally agree with RichH1… As long as governments seek short term vote winning policies then as a country we are knackered long term…..

The Aviation industry within the UK and LHR in particular is following the rail industry in this country…no real investment…..no real vision…..hiigher and higher fares..or the inscidious APD ……as long as they focus on the next general election and not the 3rd one we are going to keep falling behind our now truly global competitors..its no longer Schipol, its Dubai…its Helsinki…

David and Nick are too busy sipping champagne to smell the coffee i’m afraid!!

[RichHI1]

It is very good to see the Prime Minister in Japan trying to get UK Business to increase engagement. This will help to undo the damage the 1992 initiative did in overexposing UK business to the EU and more recently the Euro Zone. Trading on a broader basis including EU should help UK PLC.
The poi tof this post is not solely to praise the Government initiative but to observe the fallacy of transport policy. The coallition said there was no need for third runway as High Speed Rail was the future. Yet here we have Mr Cameron and a large group of businessmen flying to Japan. It would be stupid to say they should have gone by train and that is precisely why a rail only solution is over simplistic and naïve.

[openfly]

Just seen the news…..Cameron going to see the Japanese PM in a Mercedes! Sorry off topic…..

[canucklad]

High Speed rail is the future………..??????? I would agree as long as it is seen as an intergrated solution to our current woes…..And more importantly by the time you can whisk yourself to Birmingham 30 minutes quicker than just now our current infrastructure will have been so neglected to pay for HS2 that Albania and Belarus will probably have overtaken us….Factor in the reasoning behind successive governments reluctance to promote Aviation because they see it as a dirty toxic vote loser….i predict that somebody, somewherev,sometime very near is going to revolutionise the fuel that aircraft need making this carbon emissions,green house global warming redundant!! Which means that as usual there’s going to be alot of fluffy platitudes and not much action to protect an industry that at one level is vital to UK PLC and at another level brings joy to those whocan still afford it by whisking them off to family reunions and escaping the mad April snow!!

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