[Anonymous]

[MarcusUK]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/09/ns_and_minister_agree_fyra_hig.php

The Dutch Government have been very hard insisting that an hourly service be restored with NS and Belgium trains.
The Junior transport Minister has services re-established starting 7th October, in just 9 days time!
Pretty efficient!

In addition, Thalys are increasing trains each day on the Amsterdam – Brussels service.

Fyra is finished, and has such a poor reputation now that it may well cease to operate or be used in the future. Currently in runs services only between Amsterdam, Schiphol, Breda, and Rotterdam.
the Dutch and Belgium Government have begun a large Lawsuit against the failed italian Manufacturer of the hazardous Fyra trains, that caused multiple safety incidents when run- Ansaldo-Breda.

With an announcement from Eurostar informed by Alex here on BT only yesterday, to run services between Amsterdam and London, it now seems rather futile, as well as being 2 years away

The restored trains run jointly by NS and Belgium rail, will provide an hourly service, no advance booking needed, and at a nominal charge.
Thalys is overcrowded currently, not cheap, and poorly run ( i took a trip 10 days ago and no one sat in their allocated seat and on board it was dirty and in chaos).

These prompt restorations of services, will give clean low cost spontaneous services again between the two capitals. In addition Thalys will increase services.

Any additions by Eurostar to run through services , years ahead, appear pretty pointless? This is a massive increase in capacity, and restores all the seats the market needs.

My own dis-jointed experience just a few days ago, mean i shall take Eurostar, and then sit happily on any train i wish run by NS, clean well run, decent cost and no restrictions.

It appears, Fyra will be scrapped all together even for some “Fast” domestic routes in NL’s, with their old rolling stock, and higher ticket costs. Their provision is inferior to the excellent NS services already.

[FormerlyDoS]

Wow, what a disaster Fyra was 🙁

[Pasadis]

I do four plus trips per month on Thalys, bru / Ams , and have been doing so since the service started some years back. In all that time I have never witnessed unusual confusion caused by passengers not taking their pre – assigned seats. I travel in first and am quite happy with the overall service. If anything needs improvement I would say the internet speed needs upgrading.

[LuganoPirate]

I only took Fyra once, from Rotterdam to Amsterdam. It was clean, on time and very pleasant. I think I was lucky though as my eldest kids who live in Holland tell me it’s been a complete disaster and my daughter almost missed her flight relying on it.

[LuganoPirate]

Marcus, I think the reason Eurostar will offer direct services to AMS is to take business from the airlines. Many people originating the journey in the UK do not want to change trains in “foreign” stations or just prefer the convenience of non-stop.

Clearly there is a market for them and they are going for it. I just wonder why they don’t do it sooner? Lack of rolling stock perhaps?

[Edski777]

Keep in mind that the Dutch are very critical on the on-time performance of trains. The Dutch railroad has a better than 92% overall on-time performance and people are still complaining.
The rates are, compared to the UK, very low and the frequency at which train services run is very high.
And for the Fyra project: projects sometime fail.

Best of all: Eurostar announced yesterday that by the end of 2016 they will start a direct line between London and Amsterdam via the channel tunnel. The total travel time will be 4 hours.

[AMcWhirter]

Hello Marcus

Good news for Brussels-Amsterdam rail travellers. More choice for Eurostar passengers heading into Holland as, one would expect Eurostar to reinstate the popular “any station in Holland” fare which was axed with the introduction of Fyra in December 2012.

Hello Edski

We posted the Eurostar London-Amsterdam story yesterday. Here’s the link:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/eurostar-plans-amsterdam-service-in-december-2016

Hello LP

Yes you are correct in that passengers generally prefer a through train service. But one drawback with Eurostar’s planned Amsterdam route is lack of frequency.

A maximum of two trains a day may not meet the needs of business travellers planning a short trip as the one hour time difference (between UK and Holland) means that the first train of the day from London at, say 0700, would not reach Amsterdam until noon.

As for Eurostar not serving Amsterdam before now … well it’s not for a shortage of rolling stock. There are two main reasons:

1) the existing trainsets are not equipped to cope with the different Dutch power supply and signalling systems and the cost of retrofitting them is deemed uneconomic given they are now 20 years old

2) the UKBA requirements which hamper the operation of through international trains to/from the UK beyond Brussels and Paris.

[DavidGordon10]

Alex – is there any murmuring from City Night LIne that they might come to London? I know the original idea of sleeper services from London (and further North) to the continent failed on the business case, but CNL run some very useful routes in mainland Europe.

Being based much of the time in Copenhagen, to get to a mid-morning meeting in, say, Prague or Brussels is not easy by plane unless you go the night before and book a hotel, or unless there is a crack of dawn red-eye flight. But, on to the CNL train from CPH at about 18.00, excellent dinner in the dining car, time to work, a good sleep and then into the morning meeting on time and not frazzled by the travel.

Similarly timed services from London could allow similar possibilities for, say, Frankfurt or Zurich.

[AMcWhirter]

David – re CNL … nothing planned as far as I know. As always international trains between the UK and mainland Europe are hampered by technical and political issues.

For example, leaving aside the UKBA/security regulations the CNL rolling stock and locomotive would have to be approved to use the Tunnel. The original “Nightstar” rolling stock was specifically constructed to meet the Tunnel’s safety requirements and, sadly, it was sold off to the Canadians at a knock down price.

I took note of your previous remarks re CNL and I therefore included it in my 10 train services (in mainland Europe) which features in this month’s Platform.

By the way, the other European country which good airport rail links is France. Both Paris CDG and Lyon are plumbed into the high-speed TGV network.

[MarcusUK]

Thank you all for the interesting points,…
My review on the London – Amsterdam train trip, about 10 days ago.
Eurostar Standard Premier / Comfort 1 Thalys.

You can see others have the same experience as myself on the Thalys services, and i have traveled in Comfort 1 & 2. I will make the return trip in a few weeks, but am unlikely to wish to do it again.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Eurostar-Thalys-London-Amsterdam-Std.-Premier-Comfort1

The proposed (in over 2 years time) Eurostar service, will not be only 4 hrs. Add on immigration and security clearance, and a minimum of 30 mins each side to have cleared these before departure. Then you have to add o your own journey time from home to the station, very unpredictable and time consuming in London.

i cannot sadly, see these times ever matching a flight LCY – AMS, which i usually make weekly.

I do like the idea of an overnight service, and in fact the Harwich Stena Line services offer great cabins and a pleasurable and smooth trip in this way. I tried this early in the Spring.

Still, the Dutch Minister has been very insistent and re-established these services with firm direction, to her credit.
It means complete flexibility again, freedom of choice, sponatneous travel at a low cost trip for many in Holland and Belgium.
This is something we have lost completely in the UK.

I find the Dutch trains simply excellent, and the one chip card for national travel superb, on all forms of public transport in the Holland.

Fyra, will now be dealt with legally, and ?? jurisdiction of which Courts? From all accounts, the Contract specifications, Tendering process, train specifications…every aspect has been criticised, so we shall see where the final verdicts fall.

Meanwhile, a victory for common sense and trains restored, plus Thalys increasing their services also.

I cannot find the normal price on NS.NL just now, but will post it when found.

[LuganoPirate]

Evening Alex,

What I continue to find incredible, especially in light of our grand European project and the seemingly endless need to cut down on emissions, that the European Railways don’t have a common power supply and signalling system.

It’s also incredulous that train travel is not pushed more, especially through the Chunnel, as that would reduce the amount of aircraft emissions and free up runway space at LHR etc. 4 hours to AMS is really not too bad considering the time taken to get to then through Heathrow, the flight then through Schipol to downtown. Door to door there’s not a lot in it.

[AMcWhirter]

Good morning, LP

The differences in power supplies, signalling systems, loading guage (except for HS1 the UK has a different guage to mainland Europe), track guage (classic lines in Spain have a different width to those elsewhere) date back to the old days when each country did its own thing.

New HS lines are adopting common standards but even here there may be technical issues.

A good example is the long stretch of high-speed line from Paris to Barcelona. It should have enabled TGVs to run straight though starting last April. But more technical issues have emerged and there is as yet no start date set. It means passengers must still change trains at the Franco-Spanish border.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/paris-barcelona-tgv-service-delayed-indefinitely

[AMcWhirter]

Further to what Marcus was saying earlier regarding improved train links between Brussels and Amsterdam ….

Well it appears (and I haven’t yet had the news confirmed) that Thalys will be operating a direct service between Lille and Amsterdam starting in April 2014.

So, assuming that Eurostar services will connect with Thalys, then that will be yet another rail routing for London-Amsterdam.

[MarcusUK]

Ah Alex, again thanks for that. It would be good news, depending on the connections.
Still, both Companies need to get their act together on ticketing systems and fares, speak to each re train timings.
However, if Thalys operates as I experienced it, I would not use the services on the basis of poor catering, and dis-organised trains state, even on the basis of the cleanliness!

As it stands, buying tickets for the separate Companies is your better option if you want any own management of your booking!
Still, the time factor, and i remind everyone on here that misses this, needs 30 mins at the station PLUS your travel to St pabcras through London transportations first. this means a the journey time will never beat an LCY – AMS flight on time, or the £95 return price.

The trains must make a much larger profit, as no taxes, departure levies are are paid as per plane either!

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