[JohnHarper]

So with all these reports of upgrades on BA wouldn’t it suggest that their premium cabins are too large and that they can’t sell them whereas they seem to appeal more to the economy class traveler than the premium one?

Perhaps it’s time they scrapped their C+ offering which most acknowledge to be no where near an F offering and offered a standard C cabin (updated to current standards), Y+ both in smaller numbers than currently and Y. That may bring them closer to who their paying customers seem to be.

[flyingcanadian]

Hi LuganoPirate.
I have always been lucky on LX with several upgrades from Y to J because of my *A Gold status. Flts to PEK/PVG are the easiest to obtain upgrades.
However, returning to the main thread of the topic, AC is going to start charging an extra CDN$500-700 for upgrades to J. Having been relatively free for several years, in order to keep the “J” product special to PAX who actually buy “J” class, AC will charge for upgrades for the bargain “Y” fares. Full fare Y will not pay. However, if you look there are still bargain “J” class fares. IST-YVR CDN $1000, CDG-PEK CDN$1500. Not bad for 10,000+ miles, and 150% mileage credit!
LX and LH also give you 150% rather than the standard 125%.
Happy flights, LP!

[MarcusUK]

However, this thread is not Just about BA…

Some Airlines have offered select passengers, the ability to upgrade in advance, mainly from the frequent flyer program. As mentioned previously, being able to upgrade from Business to First on Etihad, was one opportunity, and i found when boarding, that they had also filled up our, and vacant seats in Business, so everybody wins with increased revenues for the Airline, and customers trying or seeing another cabin.

Frequent flyer miles are just that. Comments about these “not being allowed” to be used for upgrades or redemption flights is ridiculous!

If i fly and choose one Airline or a program and make 30+ flights a year, be they European or Long haul, I earn the miles, and have paid for them, and they Do have a monetary value. I will spend them as i wish, rarely upgrade but do use them for a redemption flight in Business. My loyalty and Business, Not paid for by someone else or a Company, but me personally, is rightly rewarded.

Airlines are starting to be distinctive about whether a Company or an individual purchases and travels with them. Perhaps those who travel using others payments, should be enrolled in a Company Scheme, where The Company get the miles back. I know they should also be declared in some countries as a taxable benefit if they take the miles themselves, and pay tax on them?

I am not surprised that BA crews perceive their customers in such a way, this is easily tangible when you get on their aircraft, and not very professional if these attitudes are held. After all, it is their Airline that overbooks, and does not manage the balance between their now 4 classes. It seems using phrases like “High J” means they add sub classes to these, which is a very British characteristic.

Pleased to say I have not used them, many on BT have left them behind. I choose to stay with the KLM, Etihad, Singapore and Malaysian Standard of travel!

I think Etihad have a different perception and it reflects on board and on the ground, where “Guests” , not passengers, are treated as such, and rightly so, they continue to gain huge amounts of new business, expansion, and loyalty. Their standards far exceed most other Airlines, and certainly any in Europe.
Then again, strategic approach and training of staff, make such a difference, so these sort of attitudes are not part of the experience.
hence they are also profitable, growing, taking other Airline’s Business, and gaining loyalty.

The death of the free Upgrade, is not only as a result of revenue gain, but of Airlines better managing their customer base, and booking numbers.Bids for upgrades prior to travel, certainly enable them to run with a higher load factor, increased revenue, and a happier customer base, and with profit. It takes thinking ahead, and certainly matches capacity with demand. A clever strategy.

Again with hotels, i think your approach and attitude and relationship you develop if a regular guest are what counts. With the Platinum Accor i always get a good welcome worldwide, 90% of the time an automatic room upgrade, and always early / late check ins, and other benefits.
As highlighted before, increasingly you must book directly for this to be flagged and the hotel made aware, as agents offer hold bookings under their own name or address, and not yours, and with no guest information.

[homewardbound]

So you “have not used them”, yet can still choose to jump on the bandwagon.

I’m also somwhat confused about the difference between an airline that can “not manage the balance between their now 4 classes” and hotels that “90% of the time [provide] an automatic room upgrade”. Surely this is the same principle, so why is it a good thing for Accor and a bad thing for BA?

[MarcusUK]

Plenty, hundreds of BT forum readers over the last 5 years, on many threads who highlight just these issues. I am sure they know what they are talking about, and many who say, like me and many colleagues and friends, that they have switched from BA to other Airlines. I have flown 70 Airlines, so i know the differences between them. You just have to pick up a newspaper to have read over the BA dramas over the last 5 years, strikes, no for as Gate Gourmet dispute, crew salaries, legal cases, queues at T4 when they were there, tents and 3 hrs for check in…way enough to see who not to choose.

i also knew one of the BA Senior Managers who left, so much more inside information than most.
So yes, i have a lot of information to firmly base conclusions on.

Have not heard many referring to hotels but on other threads, clear that BT readers have some issues re all the Hotel programs cutting back on benefits, points, miles earned.
Mine are of benefits when you arrive according to your status, and the room upgrade is always subject to availability. But yes, 90% of the time, it is already allocated, especially at Sofitels, with Club access provided always if again, the hotel has this. only if the higher grade rooms are allocated for a large group or function ahead, but other benefits always offered in their place.

Currently in the Sofitel Auckland where this has been the case.

[rferguson]

Marcus UK:
“After all, it is their Airline that overbooks, and does not manage the balance between their now 4 classes. It seems using phrases like “High J” means they add sub classes to these, which is a very British characteristic”

– High J is a term for a particular 747 configuration. At BA we have the ‘mid J’ (52 J seats) and the ‘High J’ (70 J seats).

In terms of ‘managing the inventory’ airlines have to adopt a strategy that works for them and the market they serve. For example, just look at the aircraft configurations for a start. BA’s 777-200’s come with just 127 economy seats. The other 104 are either F/J or W. Same aircraft at your preferred Malaysia Airlines or KLM have around 250 seats each in economy and only 35 in the ‘premium’ cabin. So it is probably no huge surprise that overbooking occurs less on those airlines.

So why does BA just not put less premium seats on their aircraft? Because of the biggest markets it serves. It isn’t unusual to see a completely full 747 on routes like JNB/LOS/JFK/ORD/IAD/DFW/BOS with every one of those high number of premium seats being occupied by those that have paid to sit there. However, this obviously depends on the day of the week and even the time of day. Whether there are school holidays in certain places. Etc etc. It’s not practical for an airline to configure an aircraft for use on a particular route when it is a large fleet serving a worldwide network as this would lead to poor aircraft utilisation.

Pricing strategy – Etihad and Malaysia offer some of the cheapest fares from Europe to asia and Australia from the outset. Etihad is definitely the most price aggressive of the mid east big three and Malaysia offers year round fares to Australia from Europe circa £2700 return. And with only 35 premium seats to fill on the Australian sectors for MH again, their strategy seems to be to fill them early at a lower price and avoid having to upgrade. However it is worth noting that maybe this isn’t a great way forward – Malaysia announced a big loss this year. Yes Etihad is expanding. Who wouldn’t be when you can afford to place a new aircraft order worth $41Bn

I’m not focusing on the customer perception here – I hear great things about Etihad though have never flown them. Love KLM service – their crews imho are just the best. And Singapore Airlines – well we all know they are top dog. Malaysia I wouldn’t fly again if given a choice. Their J product (with the exception of the A380) is WAY outdated (same horrible angled flat seats in J as the old generation AA J cabins) and I reckon their crews could be a worthy opponent in any ‘aloofness’ duel with us cold hearted BA’ers. 🙂

[stuartv]

I should underline rferguson’s point about having a special meal excluding you from an upgrade on BA. This has happened to me when they were offering cheap upgrades on LHR – IAH. Over the last few years I’ve received far more upgrades when traveling with a family of four on BA (I’m a Silver member). We have been bumped up from WT to Club on flights from Montreal (twice), Vegas (twice) and this week three of us flew from LHR to Calgary and were upgraded from WT+ to Club. I regularly fly from LHR to GVA, buy an economy ticket and take advantage of BA’s last minute offer (usually every flight) to upgrade to Club for between £56 and £80 and then receive the full tier points.

[MarcusUK]

So from all your experiences, if you pay for an upgrade, do you get the miles and status points for this from that Airline?

For KLM, they do NOT give you the miles or status points if you upgrade at the airport, or on check in on line, if you accept a discounted upgrade! This is quite surprising to me. The FB claim “It is not a publically available published fare”. Very strange considering it if offered to most who check in i understand.
I presume it also counts for Air France.
So, i do not use or pay for them.

Just returned from a long trip To Australia and New Zealand, via Abu Dhabi.
I was upgraded by Etihad on all 3 sectors i bid for at their invitation, from Business to First. Very good value for the ultra long haul sectors from AUH-SYD of 15 hrs. I DID receive all the status points, and F class miles.

Which other Airlines do NOT give you these if you take a discounted upgrade?

[svallis]

I can only speak for cheap BA upgrades I’ve benefited from but yes, the tier points and Avios are increased. For instance, I purchased a £112 economy return to Geneva next Tuesday from LGW where the Club ticket was advertised at £566.
Two days later I was offered to upgrade for £112 with a full increase in Avios and Tier Points.
For the last few months I’ve never paid for a Club fare but usually end up in that cabin.
By the end the year this sort of affordable upgrade will be the difference between me moving from Silver to Gold.

[CXDiamond]

I really would rather not see upgrades sold cheap. They destroy the integrity of the product that some of us are happy to pay for. I may not be popular for that point of view but I’ve never courted popularity.

[christopheL]

@CXDiamond
I’m afraid I can’t see your point. Why should cheap upgrades destroy the integrity of the product ?

[goalie11]

Just a point Marcus – Etihad don’t give you the full miles when you upgrade using the Plusgrade bid. They give you a 10% bonus on the base miles and not the full amount.

An example from their website;

‘So let’s say you upgrade from economy to business between Abu Dhabi and London (3409 miles). You’ll get the base miles for economy (3409 miles) plus a 10 percent bonus for upgrading (341 miles)’.

[MarcusUK]

In flying LHR-AUH-SYD-AUH-LHR, (with stopovers each way in AUH), we bid and were upgraded from Business to First on 3/4 sectors, including the two 15 hr Sydney flights.

Our Base Etihad “Guest” membership, benefitted from over 13,000 miles each way as an R class , the base of First Class. Our membership points were also added for the First Class fare. We also gained Silver status by the end of the third flight, and are only 8000 miles away from reaching Gold.
Even with Silver, you gain extra baggage allowance of +10kg, Lounge access worldwide, and apart from inviting an additional guest, the same as gold in other Airlines. You also get Chauffeur cars for all sectors, and any stopovers, which no other Airlines give.

So, in practice certainly from Business to First, you get full miles for that class of booking, and the status points with it.

Actually, we have been offered a status match to Gold by Etihad also.

Perhaps Y to C, you just get the 10%, but certainly this does not apply from Business to First.

[Cwyfan]

I have always had my points from Hilton, regardless of how it is paid for.

[Author]

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