[Henkel.Trocken]

I’ve flown NH on this route a few times in F and always excellent, don’t understand why anyone would choose BA unless it wasn’t as a first choice which of course happens sometimes.

[RichHI1]

BA corporate rates in First are cheaper then NH or JL. I believe in Japan both NH and JL offer good rates bt not ex UK. WHen I commuted to Tokyo biweekly in 2009 BA was 2500 UKL cheaper than JL or NH.
Service though was no comparison. Food was poor, no sake, no premier champagne, lounge in NRT was very poor. And the flight atttendants on Japanese carriers always make me feel glad to be alive. (Got told off in NH lounge for trying to get my own drink by Geisha on New Years).

[GoonerLondon]

Im not sure this is being framed properly – its not about ‘cost cutting’.

The fact is this route was launched with the benefit of the Mixed Fleet cost base. Without mixed fleet there would be no route.

[RichHI1]

Then best cancel it now if that means second rate.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

I support Rich’s view.

As frequent travellers, we dont care about cost bases.

We just want the best service and value.

If any airline cannot achieve this, then syonara.

[Hippocampus]

A somewhat selective version of history has been presented above regarding the NRT based crews. The 2nd NRT rotation was cancelled long before HND launched. At the time BA proposed that NRT based crews worked on other routes to make up for the work they lost. Who said no to this? BASSA.

Also regarding earlier comments about allowances, NRT is a hugely expensive route to crew because of the allowances earned by Worldwide crews which are vastly out of proportion to the cost of living in Tokyo. Some years ago BA proposed reforming the byzantine system of allowances (as the pilots had already done so) to remove the huge distortions between routes (with consequent division of routes between money and charity trips) and absurdly high levels of social sickness. Who was against all of this. Yes, you guessed it. BASSA.

The archaic system of allowances was one reason why Mixed Fleet was established.

This is of course of no concern to most of the travelling public but the history of the lack of reform explains how BA got to where it is today with Mixed Fleet and HND.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Yawn…. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Tete_de_cuvee]

For the sake of a little balance Hippo – can you please similarly detail the destinations which BA voluntarily actually increased allowances to their crew as the cost of living there increased? Or is it the usual case of Quid without the pro quo.

[kevin46]

The rule must have changed, but I seem to recall that it was a Japanese government requirement that all foreign carriers operating to Japan were obliged to have some Japanese crew on board.

[RichHI1]

Hippocampus what you say may be true but offering a product that does not match the quality image of teh BA brand damages that Brand.
There is already a marked difference between CLub Europe and CLub World, so passengers expect much lower standards on the short haul flights (no sleepseats, no IFE, less catering etc..)
Maybe BA should introduce a third tier for secondary routes which do not have sufficient return to justify, native langaugaae speaking crew, Frist Class, the latest equipment etc.
Passengers do not care about BA internal issues they care about having expectations met. I suggest that is where the issue lies.
For the sake of balance, this is not an issue for BA alone, a number of airlines operate a reduced quality of service on secondary routes and draw unfavourable attention as a result.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

Hippocampus – 06/03/2012 19:19 GMT I’m sure BA are glad you’ve issued yet another apology on their behalf, I’m not and can live without this sort of rubbish being posted – I don’t care about crew allowences or any similar matter.

[Henkel.Trocken]

Spot on LPPS.

[rferguson]

Before joining BA I flew for JAL as crew from their LHR base. We used to cover the flights from the UK and europe to Japan (at that time both NRT and KIX) as well as from Japan to Australia.

I can tell you in a nut-shell why Japanese businessmen prefer to fly with JL or NH EVERY time. Because they get away with blue murder!! Travelling in F and the rice steamer is broken? You will have a japanese crew member literally on the floor begging you for your forgiveness. Been busted smoking in the toilet for the SECOND time? You will have a giggling japanese stewardess who won’t dare make eye contact tell you ‘Please please mr xxxxx must not smoke’ (giggle giggle). And your meal order preference will be prioritised against any western passengers choice. ‘Sorry Mr Smith, the J class Japanese option isn’t available’ (as we have japanese passengers sleeping and they may wake up and want it.)

These situations I witnessed time and time again whilst working for JAL. Actually, our role (as europeans) on the flight were primarily what the NRT based crews role is on BA flights to Japan….dealing with our own. Western and Japanese cultures are a true clash. The japanese do not do confrontation, ever. Especially with those that they consider above them. Which for the japanese woman (99% of JL/NH cabin crew) is the japanese man. Unruly westerners that had drunk too much beer on the flight and had to be told ‘no more’…our job. Unruly japanese businessmen drunk and exposing themselves to the female crew and had to be told ‘no more’…no-ones job. They were basically indulged until they either passed out or fell asleep.

A reason why it is so important to ‘get it right’ as a western airline on a Japanese route (ie allocate japanese crew to flight ) is because the average japanese passenger on leisure travel does not choose their own flight, nor do they pay bargain basement fares. Independent travellers are a rarity on flights. Nine times out of ten they are travelling as part of a tour group, complete with tour guide on board. These tour guides and tour companies wield significant power. If one is not happy it isn’t the potential of losing one or two independent passengers to competitors it is the risk of losing an entire tour company.

BA needs to sort out the Japanese crewing issue on the HND flights. I seriously don’t understand why they don’t do like Virgin Atlantic do; recruit japanese speaking crew in the UK to work the japan flights.

Oh and one point Hippocampus. It was not BASSA (no, I am not a member) that refused NRT based crew to work onboard the HND flights (and believe me, BA was not in a period of negotiation at that time anyway). The industrial relations laws in Japan provide for the crew to refuse to work alongside others with inferior T&C’s. And THEIR union (not BASSA) recommended against working on the HND route.

[RichHI1]

Interesting rferguson. On my flights to Japan I have been fortunate not to encounter smokers lighting up or passengers having consumed too much alcohol. I must also be fortunate for always having the Japanese options available. Maybe being in First and speaking some Japanese helped. Certainly the Japanese concept of First Class Cabin Service is very different to western carriers, as you say.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Good insightful post RFerguson. Thank you.

[Author]

Posts