[AMcWhirter]

One year ago we reported that Avanti West Coast would be hoping to introduce premium economy.

Avanti wants ‘premium economy’

Nothing further was heard until this tweet appeared today.

Missed prepaid train, Euston to Birmingham an hour ago with @AvantiWestCoast. Cost of new ticket £103. Ticket office provided new ticket £0 & said "Merry Christmas" arrived at train & was offered free premium upgrade as part of a trial 😀. 1st class service. 🥇Avanti 👏 thank you pic.twitter.com/5kfQleyriJ

— Ch Supt Paul Dutton (@SuptPaulDutton) December 17, 2020

[ontherunhome]

Nice to see some Christmas spirit and goodwill from a train operator. Well done, let us hope it is catching and others follow the lead.

[AMcWhirter]

Indeed. The rail firms here are in a similar position to the airlines as regards the wide price gap between standard and first class.

Decades ago British Rail introduced Silver Standard which was a half-way house between standard and first class. It was a copy of the airlines’ premium economy.

It was simply a carriage reserved for full fare travellers.

It was definitely offered on the West Coast Mainline (WCML) as I recall a London-Manchester trip in the early 1990s.

Not sure how many other regional operators adopted it.

But Silver Standard did not last more than a few years with British Rail.

[Malachi1]

See the Italian frecciarossa trains, where they have a true First Class, Business class (like UK’s First) PE and Standard.

With good price points to suit everyone.

First is pretty expensive, but much less than an intra country C/J ticket so worth it.

Business works for most, and PE is great when on a budget but in need of a touch of comfort.

[alistairNicoll]

It is an interesting problem trying to provide a distinct 3 class offering on the railway in that there is little room in the UK to introduce a seat type between the first and standard classes that would offer enough to differentiate so you end up with either some sort of enhanced service in a standard carriage or lower offering in a first class carriage.

I think if you go back to basics then you really need to start with the first class and significantly improve that to create a gap that PE might then fill (of course if it is left to the DfT they might instead decide to put 2+3 seating in standard class!)

The second problem is ensuring that such a service is less attractive to the exiting first class users and more attractive to the existing standard class users.

From memory these were the problems BR faced with Silver Standard in that it was trying to fill the existing gap. At this time InterCity had some brilliant innovative thinking but were hampered by the fact that the money was not available for investment

However I think when looking at the Silver standard experiment on British Rail it should be remembered that they were far ahead of the game and it was about 3 or 4 years later that PE started to appear in the sky with Eva Air and of course it was far easier in the air as you had a massive difference between the business class offering and the economy one offering plenty of scope to create a distinctive PE cabin

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1087911]However I think when looking at the Silver standard experiment on British Rail it should be remembered that they were far ahead of the game and it was about 3 or 4 years later that PE started to appear in the sky with Eva Air[/quote]

Interesting points you make Alistair.

In fact I sampled BR’s Silver Standard between London and Manchester early in the 1990s. From memory it was standard class accommodation and restricted to full fare standard passengers.

As for airlines it was Virgin Atlantic and Eva Air who instigated premium economy around 1991 or 1992.

It had definitely been introduced by autumn 1992 as I took Eva Air premium economy LGW-VIE-BKK at that time. (Back then new entrants had to use Gatwick rather than Heathrow)

As you may know Virgin Trains overly specified first class capacity for its Pendolinos. Hence Avanti’s wish to fill unused first class capacity with its version of ‘premium economy.’

[alistairNicoll]

I was involved in the marketing/adverting of Silver Standard. I have not seen the Avanti PE but back in the day BR also had weekend first where you could enjoy the extra comfort of 1st for a small premium to fill up the excess capacity on the weekend

I was an early adopter of PE with Eva Air right from the start owing to a lucky accident as I had wrongly got booked in it by the travel agent (at the economy fare) and became a regular user throughout the 90s and the early 00s. for me it was an excellent product and back in those days it was about £100 more expensive than economy and if I remember right it had lounge access included. Service was brilliant and as this was before the days of the flat beds in Business this was the ideal compromise. I would probably still be a loyal EVA user albeit it in business class had I not moved up north

[canucklad]

[quote quote=1087911]It is an interesting problem trying to provide a distinct 3 class offering on the railway in that there is little room in the UK to introduce a seat type between the first and standard classes that would offer enough to differentiate so you end up with either some sort of enhanced service in a standard carriage or lower offering in a first class carriage.[/quote]

Why any rail network , particularly here in the UK wants to further complicate their offering / price structure is beyond me .
Better to focus on getting the basics right, first time every time. Something our TOC’s can’t achieve at the moment .

For me airlines use PE as a blackmailing tactic, to get people who can afford too the ability to “escape” the cattle class they’ve created to maximize space and profits at the back of the plane –Air Canada hang your head in shame !!

And surely rail operators here don’t want to regress to a 3 class system , regardless of how they spin it the loser will be the average traveller .

[RoyJones]

Its not Premium Economy I want to see. It a full First Class dining service I would like to see. GWR have it with their Pullman Dining (maybe suspended at the moment) on some of its longer distance trains and I experienced a fully served multiple course hot dinner on a train from Taunton towards London (I got off in Reading). Even including Charter Steam Trains and the British Pullman it was the best meal I have had in Britain on rail for a very long time. Proper service, train cooked, not microwaved and, I guess, luckily good company. Admittedly not cheap but a very nice way to see the countryside. As trains are not going to be crowded for a long time why doesn’t Avanti West Coast and LNER reintroduce restaurant cars to British Rails

1 user thanked author for this post.

mkcol74

[rferguson]

For me Eurostar is the blueprint for a three class train service.

[alistairNicoll]

I see where you are coming from on the railway but the airlines are a different proposition in my opinion when PE is done well as was the case with EVA it was a superb product in the 90s (and far far better than the joke business class offered by most of the European airlines on their short haul routes. In the case of EVA (only one I have flown with) there was significantly more leg room and wider seats and it was in my opinion a distinctive and well thought out option between Business and economy ( I used the word was because I have not flown EVA in a very long time)

[RoyJones]

[postquote quote=1088115]

I agree. Perhaps I expect too much or perhaps I am too old and remember the restaurant cars of the 1960s with their unbeatable full English breakfast and silver served lunch and dinner. Even London to Edinburgh or Glasgow in 4 hours with a proper restaurant meal should be real competition for business travel and almost as fast once you add in getting to the airport, checking in an hour before, and getting into town from the arrival airport.

[Montysaurus]

Pullman Dining on Great Western was superb. My wife and I used it every year at the start of our Cornish holiday. Our trip in 2020 was cancelled but I hope that 2021’s will go ahead and that GW’s Pullman Dining will be back. I have had it on many occasions over the years and it has always been full or almost full despite the price.

[AMcWhirter]

[postquote quote=1088115]

Indeed. Eurostar makes better use of surplus first class seating with its ‘premium economy.’

As noted above Avanti West Coast is hoping to do likewise.

When Virgin Trains ordered its fleet of Pendolinos it specified too many first class seats.

[AMcWhirter]

We first reported on this move by Avanti West Coast in 2019.

Today the train firm has officially announced Standard Premium,

Avanti West Coast launches ‘premium economy’

[Author]

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