[alainboy56]

@capetonianm and rferguson
Appreciate the comments and as one of you said, regardless of any of our views on whether to leave or stay, the antics of the EU on this matter and so many others certainly help sway the thinking on the leave side. The EU is full of double standards and with this AZ subject, its a disgrace.
As I have said here and in many other forums such as this, I have lived until recently in Italy for over 25 years and they (AZ) are a complete and utter disaster and should be ‘put out of their misery’. However ‘Italian Pride’ (and the all-powerful Unions) will not let this happen…… (unfortunately).
So we are probably left with a ‘bogus sham’ buy-out or take-over by a company called Ferrovia Del Stato which is in fact the Government Railway Co.
So how is this NOT a goverment buy-out which is forbidden by EU law, but ……. they will fudge around it yet again and Alitalia will live on.

Maybe again I will be marked as making inappropriate comments by the same cowardly (and blind) fool. Why does the truth hurt them so much?
I will reinforce here (as I have done in so many other exchanges/forums) I have lived in Italy over 25 years, I am married to a Finn, I have worked for a French owned company for almost the last 15 years, and am now working for an Italian Company. Finally I am Co-Director and Trustee of a UK company with and for Italians. Does this person really think that I am anti-european? I venture that I am more Pro-European in the truest sense than he/she ever is!

5 users thanked author for this post.

ImissConcorde, Jacob, IanFromHKG, rferguson, capetonianm

[transtraxman]

@capetonianm @alainboy56
The only time I have marked something inappropriate was on one of my own posts when I was trying to cancel it but that did not work. Anyway what I wish to say is that such labelling is of no importance to me. I lose no nights´ sleep over them. However, I agree that the poster should identify him/herself. More importantly I would insist the poster should explain briefly why he/she is flagging some comment as inappropriate, but only as such so that we are not taken off at a tangent in the discussion.

[Swissdiver]

The fundamental question here is about to consider public transports as a public service or not. And I am not sure there is only one answer to this. Liberalisation in the UK, France or Germany does make sense as alternatives exist (train notably). Now it does not in countries not having an alternative. Killing Cyprus Airways was absurd given the fact this is an island depending on air transportation. But given it was Cyprus and the timing, the EU terminated it (I am not writing the management was not at fault). But Italy is of course stronger in the EU! That said the geography of the country could also imply air transportation is necessary and should be subsidised (Public Service Obligation in some cases?).

[canucklad]

@Swissdiver
Double standards definitely do abound here, and I’m afraid the EU certainly appears to have more faces than the town clock , when it comes to approving PSO’s operated by airlines

Croatia = 10… 5 supporting Osijek
Cyprus = 1 …Larnaca to surprise, surprise BRUSSELS
Chechia = 3 ….Ostrava to Munich & Vienna
Estonia = 3
Finland = 3
Greece = 28 ……Mostly linking islands with each other and Athens
Italy = 11 …. Again, mostly island traffic
Lithuania = 1 …..Vilnius to LCY
Portugal = 20 …. Intra Island traffic mostly
Spain = 23 … .Ditto above
Sweden = 11 … All Stockholm to wilderness destinations
UK = 22 …….Just need to say Loganair + a few others

Ohhh, almost forgot to mention France, with a whopping 37 that unsurprisingly includes
Strasbourg to AMS, MAD, MUN and Prague, plus many routes originating from Orly to the Caribbean

1 user thanked author for this post.

Swissdiver

[AMcWhirter]

Alitalia continues as a bankrupt airline.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-20/the-rescue-of-italy-s-bankrupt-airline-faces-yet-another-delay

[alainboy56]

And now they have organised a General Strike for AZ on 13 December.
Like I have said many a time, the UNIONs in Italy really are a most disruptive bunch, and their members?, Well what can anyone say?!

[capetonianm]

https://uk-mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1YN28V

Alitalia loses as much as 2 million euros a day – Industry minister

Where is this money coming from?
As it seems to be ‘government’ money, however that may be packaged to appear otherwise, it’s an illegal state subsidy.
‘Government’ money is of course taxpayers’ money.

Why is this farce allowed to continue?

[alainboy56]

@ captonianm — that would be because of our fair minded friends in the EU, who only use the rules to suit themselves and when THEY feel like it, wouldn’t it!

Bye Bye Guys and Girls – Have Fun without the UK contributions from next year!
What’s that?
Oh you demand a divorce settlement just to tied you over a little bit.
OK we’ll see what can be sorted out for you …………….

[rferguson]

Slightly OT but have to say I was very impressed with how speedily and easily AZ dealt with a recent EU261 delay claim. With all its financial difficulties I was expecting a fight on my hands. But was dealt with very efficiently.

[transtraxman]

Things have never looked blacker for Alitalia. I believe no more suitors are available. Will this stand off force the Italian government to make the inevitable decision?
“Ferrovie and Lufthansa pull out of Alitalia rescue attempt”, (ch-aviation 10-1-20)

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/85169

[capetonianm]

I was looking yesterday at flights to CPT and back and noted that AZ offer some relatively good business and premium fares. Not tempted as it’s via JNB, and I don’t need to expose myself to the risk of them ceasing operations and having the aggravation of rebooking alternative flights so will book with a carrier that is stable.
I suspect that until this uncertainty is over, others will also avoid AZ, hastening the demise.

[alainboy56]

Took 3 internal flights with AZ this last week. VCE-FCO, FCO-BDS and BDS-FCO a day later.
The second and third sectors were by the very same aircraft (I suspect it just goes up and down on this route until its called for a ‘Check’), and was a still AIRONE liveried A320 with a very congested seating layout, as opposed to the AZ liveried aircraft used on the VCE-FCO route with a slightly better configuration.
Service is negligible, no more than a ‘bus-ride’, the cabin crew were bored uninterested characters, and the Captain (or should I say Commandante) was the usual nameless, silent individual behind the cockpit door. On one of the sectors, the 1st officer did speak or announce that he was pleased we had selected AZ for this journey and spoke in a heavily Roman accented lingo for 3 minutes and then in English for 30 seconds.
One positive note and I should be balanced in my observations, sectors one and three were early on departure and as a consequence also quite early on arrival, especially the last sector where I was able to calmly catch a 5* QR connection at FCO for an over-nighter to DOH, followed by a short early morning connection onto Kuwait.
Now that is how in-flight service should be. An English expression used often by my late mother springs to mind, they were ‘like chalk and cheese’.

AZ should be put out of its misery and left to die, but I still doubt if any politician will have the ‘cojones’ (in italian coglioni) to do such a dreadful deed.
Somehow they will massage some semi political deal, completely against the EU rules of course, and AZ will be saved once again.

Incidentally on this trip I also took a few days earlier from LHR via BRU to VCE – Brussels Airlines, whom I thought were once called SN Brussels, and it is worth bearing in mind with this small ‘nod’ to their heritage that this was once the proud national airline of Belgium, namely SABENA. and this was a low cost regional airline in Belgium called DAT or something similar. Like CROSSAIR with SWISSAIR when they folded, they have reinvented themselves and taken over the mantle of the National Airline and do so quite successfully it seems.
Who could be reinvented in Italy to take over from AZ?
AIRONE were already swallowed up in the last rescue package of AZ, and Meridiana has fallen into the hands of QR as Air Italy. Is there any other airline?

[cwoodward]

Luke Air is the largest (formally Blue Panorama Airlines) airline operating international scheduled flights.
With 19 aircraft it is larger than Air Italy but has a very checkered past and may well not be financially very sound.
Operates to 16 countries including Jamaica,Mexico and Cuba many of them seasonally. Has a focus to Albania where it has a hub.
Has 3 X A330-200 on order otherwise all Boeing.

Air Dolomiti is a largish but a domestic carrier with 14 aircraft and 10 on order.
It is a Lufthansa subsidiary with an all Embraer Air fleet.

[alainboy56]

Blue Panorama I knew but they are not a scheduled carrier, I believe they are an ABC and Ad Hoc charter company. Had not realised the new identity.
Air Dolomiti I also know very well and have flown many, many times and they are not domestic, but regional and fly in codeshare on behalf of LH mainly from Munich on ‘thin’ routes such as Pisa. They are tied up with LH for a reason. I believe, as one can imagine from their name, they come from, or at least their owners are, from the Alto Adige region which is very very Germanic and up to WWII was in fact in Germany (or Austria forgive my weak history), so they are not really considered an Italian airline. In this region the streets are called Strasse and not Via and they speak Italian with a very strong Germanic accent.
So is there another airline worth considering?
I remember some years ago LH made an airline in Malpensa and called it Lufthansa Italia but they were screwed over by the unions and it wasn’t a success.
Maybe like in Austria and Switzerland, Easyjet could make a separate Italian airline?

[transtraxman]

It seemed, less than a month ago, that Alitalia was doomed to bankruptcy from 18th March – the last day to present any takeover solution.
Now the coronavirus has given the Italian government the perfect excuse to solve the problem by nationalising the airline.
Just as the French and Dutch governments will not let AF-KLM fail, other governments, except the UK one, are looking at direct control or hidden subsidies to help their flag carriers. Expect those to be the steps taken in the next few weeks. The European Union will be powerless to stop nationalisation as the governments will ignore the EU and look after their own interests and workforces.
“Italian Government Set To Take Control Of Alitalia,” (Simple Flying 16-3-20)

Italian Government Set To Take Control Of Alitalia

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