[Anonymous]

[Swissdiver]

Reading the AF447 news confirms a fear I have for now sometimes regarding the tiny sidestick Airbus pilots are using to fly the plane. Confusion seems to be one of the causes of AF447 crash. I am wondering whether a regular coupled wheels would not have helped saving all these lives as all three pilots would have been able to see what was done by the flying one (while hard to see what he was doing with that tiny sidestick) and may-be have a better coordination. To my knowledge, only Airbus is using sidesticks and may-be they should review this strategy…

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Swissdiver

This is probably more of a question for professional pilots and aeronautical engineers.

Having said that, my reading of the report suggests that the interpretation of the instrument readings caused the fully aft sidestick position, rather than a misjudged ‘seat of the pants’ feeling, so eve if the sticks had been connected, I’m not sure it would have made a difference.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

You are right Swissdiver, chatting with an Airbus Captain friend he acknowledges that Pilots cannot see what each other is doing, only the consequence of it via the instruments.

When at altitude, flying requires a featherlight touch where millimetres have a major consequence.(Autopilot is actually better at making these small adjustments)

Being able to see the degree of inputs your co-pilot makes would certainly aid safety. If TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) kicks in the degree of input to correct the situation varies according to altitude – this should be visible.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Tete

I would have thought that TCAS command responses would be best monitored via the VSI.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Hi DoS, Am infomed the VSI (vertical speed indicator) has a lag. Seeing the input (as opposed to the effect of the input via instruments) apparently is preferable.

[craigwatson]

commercial airliners use iVSI (instantaneous Vertical Speed Indicator) so there is no lag. there always has been, and always will be arguments over side sticks with the camp split quite evenly over airbus rated pilots and all the rest. and DoS is right, from everything i have heard, it would not have mattered if there was a conventional yoke, as the pilots didnt even realize they were stalled.

[watersz]

When at altitude, flying requires a featherlight touch where millimetres have a major consequence

would the none flying pilot really be able to see millimeters of adjustment ?
feel it yes …

[Swissdiver]

Craig,

I am not a pilot. My feel on this however is that stress was an important factor. Under stress, human beings tend to act on a reflex basis (like running away when facing a big bear). A conventional yoke might have helped the pilot going back to the basis and avoid the catastrophe. Not that tiny side stick.

[Swissdiver]

It seems the side stick is incriminated by the AF pilots in the F447 crash… An interesting development… http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2012/03/20/rio-paris-la-formation-des-pilotes-en-question_1673021_3224.html (in French only)

[MartynSinclair]

Dassualt have designed the EASy flight deck into their newer models of Business jets which include a side stick controller.

I think that there is a difference between pilots who only know a side stick controller to those who have transitioned from conventional.

The side stick works purely on pilot needing to interpret data/instruments, where as the conventional yoke still maintains a degree, however small of ‘feel’.

[RichHI1]

I cannot help wondering if the lack of standards in flight controls is not perhaps a bad thing. In motor venicles you have a degree of standardization, i.e. Steering wheel, accelerator, brakes, gear stick (clutch for manuals) and when there are non standard functions such as the positioning of 1st and 5th in some racing gearboxes, these cause accidents when drivers get stressed or diverted by external events.
If there was a standard commercial set of controls would this add to aviation safety? Whilst not wishing to stifle innovation, my question would be, should manufacturers have to follow a code until they get changes approved? To focus debate I am talking like to like not saying Fixed wing jets should have same controls as a rotary or an ultralight.

[MartynSinclair]

Airbus have gone down the road of standardisation across their fleet enabling easier type transitions.

However, standardisation is not only between aircraft mfg’s but also down to the different standards between countries Aviation authority.

I really think its down to a training issues.

Are their any stats re aircraft accidents between side stick and conventional yoke aircraft? Does one airline or country stand out more than others. I have a feeling I know the answer but hesitate to post without supporting evidence.

[craigwatson]

Like Martin I have my own feelings, and while I have no supporting info. I will give my OPINION, I think if you were to look at the stats there would be more accidents with aircraft with convention yokes. FBW sidestick airbuses have caused accidents due to confusion, but again IMHO the airbus computer system has stopped more accidents than it has caused

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