[SenatorGold]

[postquote quote=1364110]

I very much support the suggestion of a routing from LHR to AKL vis YVR IVancouver). In December 2019 I flew LHR to YVR on Air Canada but as an Air New Zealand code share before connecting with ANZ to AKL. The transfer process at YVR was effortless and quick. No passport control and not far to walk. My return journey was on ANZ via LAX and what a difference. If it hadn’t been for the intervention of ANZ ground staff, passengers flying onward to LHR wouldn’t have got through passport control in time.

I agree that ANZ seemed to treat AKL-LAX and LAX – LHR as two separate flights.

ANZ is a great airline, but they haven’t kept up with the competition. In 2011 when they introduced their reverse herringbone business class seat, it was fine. Now it seems very out of date, not least because it doesn’t; offer any privacy. I’m not sure if Virgin have updated their business class seat, but the Virgin and ANZ business class seat was the same.

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MarcusGB

[MarcusGB]

I have to agree re this Business seat angle, it puts me off and Airline using these.
I always look at the Aircraft and seats used prior to booking any one of them.

Yes, the seats in NZ’s Biz do put me off!

Virgin Atlantic have the same seats on some of their new 787 series, which is a lost opportunity.
Long time since i flew with them, but the same direction of seats in Biz, you can be looking at 8 or so passengers into the Aisla all the time!
One guy opposite me appeared, got upgraded for some reason, and took his shoes n socks off.
He had every example of Medical diagnosis on his feet that there is to make, and frankly made me feel sick!
Along with a couple changing the babies nappy in seats 1 middle row on top of the two seats at the bulkhead, a certain smell filled the cabin. It was absolutely inappropriate for all concerned. I mentioned to the crew but they did nothing!

Same flight, after we took off i went back to sit at the Upper Class bar. There was no room, as the crew had used it to unpack meals and trays, and several starter filled were on the floor by the exit doors where we boarded. Grossly unhygienic.

I have not flown them since. A disaster in hygiene standards, all on one flight, so no more.

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Andrew

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1364212]I very much support the suggestion of a routing from LHR to AKL vis YVR IVancouver). In December 2019 I flew LHR to YVR on Air Canada but as an Air New Zealand code share before connecting with ANZ to AKL.[/quote]

Yes that particular routing was being sold by UK travel agents at that time.

If I remember correctly the then Air NZ CEO was in London at the time those business class seats were being introduced and he explained that Air NZ was licencing the design from Virgin Atlantic.

Virgin Atlantic introduced a new business class seat in 2022.

A London-Vancouver-Auckland routing with Air NZ is interesting.

But Air NZ would need to obtain fifth-freedom rights from the Canadians and the UK (for YVR-LON-YVR) and these rights are not easily granted nowadays.

The fifth-freedom rights Air NZ held for LAX-LHR-LAX were granted a long time ago when aviation was not so competitive.

[cwoodward]

The YVR routing has several disadvantages over an Asian routing
It would somewhat seasonal
YVR is isolated as compared to Bangkok nor does it have the year round pull of say Bangkok -a holiday in the sun.
It would not attract the year round bums on seats and full aircraft needed to make the route profitable.
Certainly I would see Shanghai as a possible but the ‘pull’ of Bangkok is greater thus the marketing investment less

[MarkivJ]

Not sure what you mean by no “year round pull”. I live in Seattle and can tell you that Van is filled with tourists all year round. Alaska Cruise and sightseeing/hiking/boating traffic during the summer months and skiing/winter activities during the winter season. Plus, there is a deficit of London flights now as AC pulled back one of 2 dailies (repurposed it for Asian flights) and BA doesn’t fly A380 during summer anymore.

[cwoodward]

I have been to ‘Van” times several times and to say that it was ever filled with tourists would be something of an exaggeration. Yes it was fairly busy when I was being shown the sights by my sister in law who lives there- most seemed though to be local or from the USA. However a very nice (if cold most of the year and a little wet) city.
The weather though apart from the shortish summer of not going to be compelling to these from ether end of the route that are looking for something more exotic than cool NZ or the normally rather dismal UK climes offer -should they be contemplating a holiday or few days stopover.
In my belief not enough year round ‘pull’ to fill the seats 5/7 times a week.

[AMcWhirter]

But as I noted above Air NZ would need to obtain fifth-freedom rights for YVR-LON-YVR.

[MarkivJ]

cwoodward – When I meant Van, I meant Van and the greater Van catchment area which includes Van Island and BC province in general. YVR is the only big airport W of calgary and Edmonton (and those 2 cities are losing intl flights or frequencies by premium carriers) so the year round intl traffic to YVR is always there and huge. As you observed, you may not see huge intl crowds in the central parts of Van but that doesn’t mean they don’t come in hoards. Infact, if anything, that’s a misleading indicator.

Whether its the summer crowds at Van Island (Tofino is a huge surfing hub) or Whistler, the skiing crowd (again at Whistler) during winter , Alaska cruise traffic, year round Aussies/Kiwis that do law internships or 2-3 yr gigs in Canada, biotech industry that’s attracting a lot of Swiss pharmaceuticals and employment, Europeans who come to Canada on learn English programs or the robust Startup (esp stealth startups) scene, the potential is huge. The latest I heard is Europeans relo’ing to Okanagan area to cash in on the growing icewine business. Also, Europeans prefer Canada over the USA for the simplified visa processes.

Sadly, AC has been repurposing more aircraft to EU from Toronto and Montreal whilst growing YVR as an Asian hub. So, there is a lot of potential for other airlines to cash in on the EU-YVR segment. Air NZ could extend its year round AKL-YVR flight to LHR both to address demand in the UK-YVR leg but also use its Star Alliance connections for mainland EU connections. Load factors for all of KL, AF, the 2 daily LH, etc. is HUGE.

[cwoodward]

We perhaps need to agree to disagree on this MarkivJ.

[MarkivJ]

[postquote quote=1365593]

I will agree on that 😉

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cwoodward

[PA_Flyer]

I used the Air NZ HKG-LHR 747-400 service only once connecting through to MAN with the now defunct but not forgotten BMI. It would be a welcome return except that Air NZ stated that 10am dep time in HKG should be treated as night time flight & insisted on window blinds being shut for most of 13 hour flight. Especially after an overnight connection from AKL.

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Andrew

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1366434]I used the Air NZ HKG-LHR 747-400 service only once connecting through to MAN with the now defunct but not forgotten BMI. It would be a welcome return except that Air NZ stated that 10am dep time in HKG should be treated as night time flight & insisted on window blinds being shut for most of 13 hour flight. Especially after an overnight connection from AKL.[/quote]

If I remember correctly that 1000 departure from HKG could be an hour earlier depending on UK or HKG clock times.

Another reason why daytime flights HKG-LON are niche is because of the early start (if not staying at the airport) which might mean the tourist or (visiting) business traveller having to spend money on an extra night’s accommodtion.

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cwoodward

[AdamMarley]

Bums in seats doesn’t equal high yield though. Believe what you’re being told – BKK is not a high yield destination.

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MarkivJ

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1366716]Bums in seats doesn’t equal high yield though. Believe what you’re being told – BKK is not a high yield destination.[/quote]

That used to be the case but right now – at least in June.

Just now I checked TG’s Y fares (avoiding weekend travel) and the prices were over £900 return.

Of course this could change were BA to resume passenger services (which it may do now considering the high revenue and June is not peak season !).

The key for Air NZ (which Eva Air must have mastered) is to balance out demand/passenger loads on both sectors.

As for low yield bear in mind Lufthansa will be deploying its A380 (its former flagship) Munich-Bangkok this winter.

[cwoodward]

Bums on seats equal a full aircraft. This route would have good business and premium traffic also.
There is no reason the the flight would be low yielding as we are not talking Ryanair here – more Cathay or S’pore.

[Author]

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