[cwoodward]

The below outlines the projected layout for 2026 delivery.

It seems that Qantas has been flogging this no longer ground breaking project for the past 10 years. (perhaps a slight exaggeration)
Having read much Qantas publicity over the years I have formed the opinion that what is promoted by this airline seldom comes to fruition.

Qantas orders Airbus A350s for Project Sunrise

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Andrew, Bullfrog

[Mark]

Like Virgin Atlantic Free advertising and publicity.
They are flogging the same product with a new wrapper.

Sq had a similar stretch area on the ULH A340 with “Executive economy class”

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Andrew, cwoodward

[Bullfrog]

Well, time will tell.

Qantas have proven themselves on the Perth / London route.

Qantas have now started Sydney – Auckland – New York.

I hope that they succeed in their attempt to link London to Sydney or Melbourne with non stop flights.

It will be the ‘icing on the cake’ for the wonder of flight.

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Henryp1, cwoodward, Ekond222

[Rferguson2]

I think it will for sure happen. It is a niche that QANTAS can exploit and that no other carrier will likely operate. The LHR-PER route is performing well ahead of expectations and is almost consistently full, especially in the premium carriers.

I imagine the biggest headache for QF sunrise launch at the moment is the restrictions on flight space over Ukraine, Iran and parts of Afghanistan. These are already making the much shorter SIN-LHR sectors longer and will have an impact on the Sunrise flights.

Qantas takes a conservative safety view over airspace for example SQ and the LH group are again flying through Iranian airspace between Asia and europe which is the most time efficient routing (as would be for SYD to LHR non stop). Qantas still avoids the airspace.

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Bullfrog

[cwoodward]

The population of Perth is a relatively small one of course and the aircraft is being filed with paxs traveling first from Sydney or Melbourne (a 5 hour flight from Sydney and 4.5 to Darwin) then a further 17.5 hour flight ex Perth to LHR.

So 2 stops (plus possible an overnight hotel in Perth) and a very bare minimum of 27 hours while ex Sydney or Melbourne to LHR on

Cathay is 1 stop in HK and 23.5 hours total with 2 comfortable flights of about 9 and 11 hours (26 hours if you want to have a couple of hours in Hong Kong) using the excellent connections and lounges.

Why would anyone bother with the Qantas 2 stop 787 flight unless they lived in Perth ?

[BrotherJim]

[postquote quote=1369516]

Not sure how you work out it’s two stops and possible overnight stay.

If you fly LHR-PER-SYD it is one stop likewise MEL (which obviously uses the same aircraft most of the time). Plus of course Adelaide, Brisbane and a whole raft of smaller cities with direct flights to Perth.

Also connecting in Perth doesn’t require an overnight stop with arrival a time into Perth is 1140am there are plenty of east coast connections. And likewise it departs Perth around 7pm so also meets most flights from the east. It is also no where near the 27 hours you quoted.

As someone who has used this flight many times the main advantage for me is the timing of the flights. Leaving Perth the time it departs allows me to stay awake for a few hours after leaving and then get sleep most of the way to London. Everytime I’ve caught it my jet lag has been minimal compared to QF1 and other alternatives. The problem with the alternatives such as via Hong Kong or Singapore is they usually require an afternoon departure, you get sleepy about an hour or two out of Hong Kong or Singapore and have to wake up for the transit and then on the next segment endure a few hours of meal service noise.

And if flying via the Middle East yes you can get a decent sleep to the ME but then it’s hard to sleep on the inbound flight to Heathrow. So you have already been awake for 10 hours before you arrive at 5/6am.

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Henryp1, Bullfrog

[Rferguson2]

[postquote quote=1369516]

The QF9 originates in MEL. It flies the just short of 4hrs to PER before the 17.5hr schlep to LHR.

I use both the QF1/2 and the QF9/10 regularly and what is interesting is that they seem to cater to a completely different demographic.

For example, the QF1/2 A380 via SIN seems a lot more ‘cosmopolitan’. A huge variation of ages and nationalities on board. Business types and leisure travellers. When I fly the QF9/10 via PER it seems a very different crowd. Most of the accents I hear are British and Aussie and the older age demographic is noticeable. From conversations I have had with seatmates (and eavesdropped on) a lot of these passengers are elderly british folk travelling to oz to visit family (often children and grandchildren) and have selected this more expensive flight as they don’t want ‘the hassle of changing planes half way and potentially getting stranded’.

The spats between QF and both Perth Airport and the WA government are well known. When all of Australia except Western Australia opened their international boarders QF rerouted the LHR-PER-MEL flight to LHR-DRW-MEL. Despite some limitations on take off weight on the DRW-LHR sector it worked perfectly for QF and they finally got what they have wanted for a long time in PER – DRW is only one terminal so they could launch more OZ-Europe flights from there without passengers needing to make a terminal change. Perth on the other hand has made it crystal clear to QF – if you want to launch more international flights from PER they must be from the international terminal which is a couple km from the QF domestic terminal. This is obviously unappealing to Qantas. So, there was talk for a little while that QF would give the middle finger to PER altogether and focus on DRW more permanently. This never happened as AJ said that due to the large UK expat community living in Perth there is a roughly 50/50 split of pax terminating/originating in PER and continuing on elsewhere. DRW was more like 10%.

As wonderful as the ME3/CX/SQ etc can be on board we have all heard the stories of completely different levels of service on the ground when cancellations or missed connections happen. A lot of people don’t want to deal with this, especially those of a more senior age or with reduced mobility etc.

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Andrew, EU_Flyer, Woodpecker, Bullfrog, Ekond222, AMcWhirter

[cwoodward]

RFerguson 2
It takes minimum just over 5 hours Sydney to Perth according to Qantas not the 4 hours mentioned.

Not a lot of chance of much disruption re missed connections given the frequency of CX and SQ flights ex Sydney or CX ex HKG to LHR.
In my view the quicker and more pleasant way to London ex Sydney is on the CX A350 or B777-300 and it seems given the full flights that many others agree.

[BackOfThePlane]

First or business class, not a problem. Premium economy, tough. 20hrs non-stop in economy, not a chance in hell.

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Andrew, Jacob, Nick Pike

[cwoodward]

The 11 hours to London ex HKG is enough for me and the last couple of hours I get fidgety even in 1st and perhaps just a little stressed.
Re BOTP’s post – for me doable in 1st, just possible in business – but nether by choice.

[Henryp1]

Very much looking forward to the non stop to Sydney, it will be nice to travel without planned stops. Having used the LHR to PER a few times, this has been a great way to travel, just needs a little flight planning, to ensure sleep is maximised.

Otherwise, QR to Sydney with the maximum length flight of the second leg, with a late evening arrival is preferred. As we travel every month we try to maximise our rest on flights, and be ready the day following arrival.

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Bullfrog

[Rferguson2]

@ Cwoodward – for sure, the bulk of us are quite happy flying CX or the gulf carriers and enjoying the onboard comforts and great lounges.

There is however enough demand for non stop Sydney – Europe flights as a niche. Qantas has said the non stop will still operate alongside (likely at a premium) a frequency that will still use the traditional routing via SIN. The Qantas A380 service is nearly always full or near and an A350 would not be enough to pick up the slack – especially given its small number of economy seats versus the 341 Y seats on the A380.

The seasonal Perth – Rome service that has just restarted has also been given the green light to operate again in 2024 I guess on the basis of the service being lucrative despite a huge amount of other options via the gulf/asia.

[cwoodward]

As Rf2 mentions there certainly seems to be demand for these ultra long-haul flights and Australians particularly are inveterate travellers. But not for me by choice.
I did read (sometime ago) however that the proposed Qantas A350s for the LHR route need to have less seats overall in order to make the trip non-stop. I am unsure if that is still correct but if so will the route be profitable?

[EU_Flyer]

I can’t imagine why someone in economy would want to spend 22 hours on a non stop flight versus a civilized break in Singapore. Conversely, for those in First and Business, it makes much more sense to fly non-stop given the space and comfort available.

So I wonder how many in Economy will be willing to pay a premium to fly on the A350? RFurguson2’s insights on the demographic of the LHR-PER flights are interesting though.

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Bullfrog

[Rferguson2]

@cwoodward correct.

Weight plays a huge factor in being able to operate these flights.

We’ve seen examples of it going wrong lately with the new(ish)Air NZ AKL-NYC non stop. It is regularly having to make unscheduled pit spots in various pacific island airports to refuel.

Only a couple days ago QF launched their own AKL-NYC flights using the 787-9, exactly the same aircraft Air NZ is using. However, QF is citing that they don’t expect the same problems that NZ is having regarding diversions as the QF 787’s are somewhat lighter purely down to their larger premium cabin real estate.

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Bullfrog

[Author]

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