BA cabin crew reject latest offer

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This topic contains 36 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  continentalclub 10 May 2010
at 20:50
.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 37 total)

  • Anonymous

    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/ba-cabin-crew-reject-latest-offer

    No dates mentioned yet as possible for strike action.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    With seven days notice required before any action, this would suggest the danger zone would be one week after their planned meeting on 10 May, so there fore18 May-25 May seems to be a hotspot, assuming they will not want to strike over the second Bank Holiday in May.


    Travellator
    Participant

    Another possible disrupted flight !

    Really think that BA playing brinkmanship is now seiously likely to disrupt peoples plans and further damage the airline.
    I now have to address regrettably rescheduling my flying schedule to another airline ( selfish I know but needs must )

    If David Cameron and Nick Clegg can contemplate talking think Willie and Unite should start – NOW !


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    Unite and Willie have been speaking – yet again the Union remains intransigent.

    Another strike would result in minimal disruption for longhaul, with many people trained on both 747 and 777, hot food service, and many lessons learned from previous strikes.

    The best option now is simply to give all crew 90 days notice and re-hire on new contracts.


    Travellator
    Participant

    Ironic that I have just had a return flight to AGP in Club with possibly the best crew and service ever on that route – and I use it a lot !

    My next flight is to same destination in the DANGER period !


    Account_Deleted
    Participant

    Account deleted


    JonathanCohen09
    Participant

    Geohoveuk,

    why do you continually make it the responsibility of WW to avert this strike. Is it not also the responsibility of the union to do their very best to help avert further stike action?

    The strikes or threat of them are not helping either side. I find myself agreeing with VK in that BA should give notice to all crew nd then rehire them on the new contracts.

    No doubt you would see that as draconian and completely unjustifiable. In my opinion though that would be better than this dispute continuing for goodness knows how much longer and damging the airline and therefore its employees job prospects even further!!

    Safe travels everyone,

    Jonathan


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    A variation on a theme, but “I agree with Jonathan”.


    NTarrant
    Participant

    I think we have been throught this argument before. Crew are trying to protect their lifestyle Geohoveuk, well so are millions of others in this country. There are tough times ahead and notice may have to be served on some crew, its call ed redudancy or new contract.

    Well said Jonathan and VK, I agree


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    I am not an employment lawyer, but I think you’ll find that any employer can impose a change of contract if they give 90 days notice.

    You have an opportunity to to accept the new terms, and sign a new contract, or you can choose to be made redundant, with statutory compensation, as you old role/T&Cs no longer exist. This is a most serious situation, and it does seem strange that the Union are not warning you that this is an option which could be deployed.

    So, while hardly satisfactory for anybody, it is my understanding that BA Management retains the right to exercise this option should further strike action look likely. Perfectly legal, as long as the new terms are offered to all cabin crew, not just those who choose to support strike action.

    Would welcome comment on the above from those who are more expert on the matter….

    PS several non sequiturs in the post above so it’s hard to address every point you make


    NTarrant
    Participant

    VK you are quite correct. I think you would agree that potentially that option might be more appropriate than suffering strikes. Crew would have a clear option, new contract or redunancy.


    NTarrant
    Participant

    I will continue to support BA during this period. Whether you agree or disagree these are difficult times and we need to support British firms and that includes BA.

    As I say there are tought times ahead and there may even have to be redundancies amongst airline staff as retraction and cost savings will have to made as reductions in spending, not only public but private as well.

    Let us be clear Geohoveuk, it matters not what I, VK or Jonathan say you will not change your view and will continue to blame WW and management. We are talking from a sensible perspective without emotions looking at this from a business point of view. The fact is the strike will be poorly supported and many flights will continue to operate. The volunteers are not moonlighters, they are employees of the airline that see a flexable approach is the best way to secure long term viability of the airline.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    geo, I’ve said it before, but a CEO is remunerated based on market forces and whether it’s WW or someone else, that is the going rate. WW himself has generated many millions by his activities steering through a merger with Iberia, and will hopefully generate even more value for the airline with a merger with American, due soon.

    Again, you post betrays an almost pathological obsession about WW rather than the core issue, that of Cabin Crew T&Cs, so let’s no be distracted by that.

    Your point about the “moonlighters and strike breakers” further demonstrates a lack of understanding about the relevant numbers here.

    I would remind you that during the previous strike, volunteer crews had to be turned away from Heathrow as so many regular crew turned up for work as normal. ALL London City and ALL Gatwick longhaul services continued to run during the last strike.

    Nearly 6,000 volunteer crew have been trained now, and are equipped both on the 777 and 747, plus can all serve hot food. Only 777s and cold food service was available during the previous strike. Hardly a “handful”, and all very capable of filling in for the diminishing number of crew who voted to strike.

    Again, some facts rather than hearsay (using BASSA’s own numbers):

    Last time of the 81% who voted (and remember only Union members can vote), only 79% were in favour of strike action which makes the total percentage of BA Cabin Crew who were Union members who voted in favour of a strike to be 64%.

    This time it was 71% of union members who bothered to vote, and of those only 81% were in favour of strike action which makes the total percentage those crew in the union who voted no to the offer/in favour of a strike to be just 57.51% I believe (unless my maths is totally wrong).

    The turnout was smaller this time, down 10% but the percentage of yes votes was up 3%. So the percentage of total union crew who voted to turn down the offer/yes to strike is down 6.49% from the last ballot.

    When you consider how many people have resigned from BASSA in disgust at their negotiating stance (and those would probably have voted against strike action) it is clear that both union membership and support for strike action is falling (falling even more than the figures would have you believe), meanwhile more volunteer crews are trained on more aircraft types, to offer full service to customers.

    Plus BA has learned from past strikes and is much better set up to judge likley strike support and so keep services running rather than cancel them.

    bmi recently sacked nearly 600 staff – a ready trained mainly LHR based workforce who would be pleased to be re-hired on revised terms.

    So, while a strike would inevitably have some impact on passengers (esp. shorthaul) the BA operation would indeed be able to continue to offer significant services using full time and volunteer crews, with a large pool of recently made redundant, trained cabin crew from other airlines who could quickly replace any staff who chose to take redundancy.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    I don’t see how calling me pathetic helps your argument one jot.

    Qantas pays its new crew 30% less than BA crews, and yet wins more accolade for service than BA. It also takes that crew cost saving and directly uses it to increase the budget for catering and other services F pax want – and it shows on board. There is no reason why profitability cannot be increased while product also improves.

    Again the point is not about turnout in absolute terms; turnout is falling, and from an already reduced population; the trend is not good from your argument’s perspective. Once again you have failed to grasp that only unionised crew were balloted, the non unionised crew have not had theior voice heard.

    I am afraid your shakey grasp of both economics and the corporate world make it very hard to have a constructive debate.

    Strike = strikers end up with worse deal, or lose their jobs altogether.

    Sad, but that is the simple reality.

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