[JohnPhelanAustralia]

“Flight deck are extremely paid to surplus and ground services will become unrecognisable world-wide.” ???? What does this sentence mean?

Certainly BA crew are currently about the highest paid in the world – that’s one of the problems that needs to be addressed if it is to remain competitive.

As regards the Qantas comparisons, here’s my view as an Australian: the QF business model has changed over the past decade. It is the ONLY maor world airline that has remained profitable in each and every year of that time perod. If the model had not changed, QF would have gone broke – especially as its major competitors internationally are Asian airlines where staff are paid a fraction of what Qantas staff are paid (and are still paid!).

Geo – in relation to QF’s maintenance – less than 5% of aircraft maintenance is carried out offshore. The vast majority of the recent “incidents” with QF aircraft have been with A330s – of which ALL scheduled maintenance is carried out within Australia!

And finally – labelling people who do not agree with you as “pathetic” is playing the man, rather than the ball. Those who continually insult others should be banned from this site.

[JonathanCohen09]

Geo,

let me try to come at this from a different angle. since you seem to disagree with most of what myself and other posters are saying in defence of BA management, can you please tell us what you would do if you were running BA in order to make things work better in terms of service to the customer, cutting costs and returning the airline to being profitable again.

Please try not to get emotional or insult me or fellow posters as I do not recall any of us insulting you. I really would like to know what you would do?

I look forward to your response.

Safe travels,

Jonathan

[StephenLondon]

I agree with JonathanCohen09 and would very much like to hear what geohoveuk would do if he were running BA in order to make things work better in terms of service to the customer, cutting costs and returning the airline to being profitable again.

[MartynSinclair]

I remember VK making the point some time ago that the primary aim of a business stratergy was to increase value for the shareholders. Whilst this may still be the case, the value can only be increased if the revenues are maintained.. This will only happen if BA can:

1, reduce costs
2. increase cargo revenues
3. maintain pax loads
4. “look after” their assets

How the management and unions decide to behave towards each other is going to provide the answers because unless its core customers are made to feel confident that pricing, services and schedules can be mainatained, it will alll be pretty irrelevant becasue the BA reserves can not maintain salaries and costs forever. I can not see any justification for an airline to hire airplanes and crews from other company to make cover services during a strike – basically, the astrike should never have happened.

I understand what VK and Jonny 09 are saying about allowing management to manage, but using the general election as an example, sometimes there is a need to work together rather than face conflict.

I am getting fed up with the BA situation and as much as you are all trying to get GEO to discuss this without emotion, I would like to ask NTarrant and VK, what it would take for them to turn their back on BA and move to another carrier – or would they both stick with BA until the very end.

My jury is currently out becasue the loyalty I am showing BA through this disute, i feel is being taken for granted and not being returned. If BA mnanagement were strong enough this would have been resoved by now, but quite simply the BA team appears too week to bring this to a solution.

[VintageKrug]

MartynSinclair

BA Management have too often caved in to union demands.

As is the case with the running of the UK economy, the easy path is simply to say we will open the flood gates and continue spending more for the forseeable future. Unfortunately, this is neither prudent, nor in the long term best interests of the company or the individuals concerned.

BA Management needs to re-assert itself, and it has taken confrontation such as the strike to do this, simply because the Union will insist there is nothing wrong and no change is required otherwise. So yes it is a tough choice, but if WW caves now, this whole episode (strikes etc.) will simply be revisited again until reality bites – and that would be a very unpleasant bite indeed.

I also have a Star Gold and fly frequently on other airlines; I tend primarily to comment on BA here as that’s what I fly most and know most about, but I certainly use other carriers when BA is not the most convenient/cost effective carrier.

So I am not entirely loyal to BA, having flown Swiss (superb!), Air China, Thai and several other European regional carriers in the past month alone.

So no, my loyalty to BA is not as slavish as you might believe…. WW failing to put a dent in costs failing to use those savings to continue to improve on board and on-the-ground services would make me consider alternative options more closely.

Geo

I genuinely am interested in your opinions, misguided though they may be. Thank you for your continuing contributions.

It is of some considerable concern that you have formed this viewpoint yet lack many of the basic facts and economic/business judgement in order to draw logical conclusions. I very much hope you are not advising friends/others in this way, as if you are then they really will lose out.

1. My views are not far-right. Being “far-right” is not a pleasant thing to accuse anyone of, and just isn’t true (though I doubt you actually understand the ramifications of such an accusation).

2. You talk about Qantas managers being “despised”. Being in Management is not “Britain’s Got Talent”. Popularity is not the goal of management, and should not be. They should engender respect, but then so should Union reps; this has been lacking on both sides in the recent conflict at BA, which personal vilification of Willie Walsh by Unite.

The Qantas model you quote is not specific to Qantas, but one which faces the new realities of doing business globally. Low cost models and outsourcing of commoditised services is the only way to compete in a globalised economy.

Unite/BASSA has blatantly lied and continues to mislead its membership, and yet you still think that behaviour acceptable. BA Management has remained rock solid in carrying out every promise it has made during this dispute.

3. You stated that Qantas does not get the “most from its staffbase”. And yet they seem to deliver at the very least the same service as BA (in fact my experience is just that) and Qantas crews also have won many wards recently; all that is subjective.

What is objectively true is that they do all this for 30% LESS money than BA crews, and the money saved is ploughed into the customer experience by increasing catering spend. I fail to see how this is detrimental to the passengers OR the newly employed crews who are pleased to have the work, and whose service has been proven to be market leading, DESPITE being delivered for less cost.

There is simply no link whatsoever between the amount paid to staff and the level of service they deliver. NONE.

4. You point about engineering failures was similarly invalidated as it seems the lower cost centres had nothing to do with maintaining the aircraft which had incidents.

5. I don’t think it is necessary to use the word “shitty” at all.

6. I agree with you that busses are not appropriate for premium passengers; however this only happens with regularity at T5, and will greatly reduce when BAA finally gets round to completing T5C in 2011. BA had to move into a facility which was not yet ready to manage all the movements required by BA, and the high numbers of bussing gates was a coinsequence of that.

BA has also signed up to stringent environmental targets, and notwithstanding my personal dislike of bussing, using the BA owned fleet of brand new busses helps towards that goal.

[JonathanCohen09]

Geo,

despite my request you have chosen not to answer the question about what you would do to sort things out, instead you simply re-iterate the position and views that we all know that you hold.

Therefore again I would sk you to tell us what you would do if you were the CEO of BA trying to sort out the problems that the airline is currently facing.

I would alo ask that you refrain from your constant references to posters like VK holding ‘far-right’ views. Your silence when taken to task by myself and VK when you used the ‘nazi’ term was deafening.

I hope to see you post an answer to the question.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

PS Martyn, do we know each other well enough for you to call me Jonny 09 and if so can I call you Marty?

[VintageKrug]

You are all welcome to call me VintageKrug 😉

[JonathanCohen09]

Thanks for that VK 🙂

[VintageKrug]

Anytime, JC! 😉

[MartynSinclair]

Hi All

Sure – you may call me Martyn – Sir Martyn – my full title Capt. Martyn, Marty, Marty boy, even Mart – no offence is ever taken or non is ever intended.

With regards and smiling faces to all

Martyn Sinclair

[continentalclub]

Unite has just announced 20 strike days: May 18-22, May 24-28, May 30-June 3 and June 5-9 2010.

[NTarrant]

Geo – I have to agree with Jonathan and ask you what it is you would do if you were CEO of BA. Would you give me back my hot towels in Club Europe? Would I get a sandwich on the 1700 LHR-EDI? Would Jonathan not have to pay £60 to reserve his seat in Club World? How much would you pay yourself?

Martyn – It would take a lot for me to turn my back on BA, primarily because they fly to the places I want to go. It is unlikely that any one airline would be able to do that and give me the rewards in the form of miles and status.

As whoever it was said back there (Jonathan I think), when BA get it right the product is excellent. They are not perfect and things do go wrong and when they do I expect them to put it right. I also have difficulty in understanding why there are a number of people who are just so anti-BA on these forums.

If BA finished tomorrow then clearly I would have to find alternatives but I will continue to support them. What I do feel is that before chopping passenger comforts like those I have mentioned above it should have been the crew issues.

[Cedric_Statherby]

Two questions to all:

1. Why do BA’s unionised cabin crew go on voting in large numbers for these strikes? Because you cannot deny that they do. Let us ignore the trite answers that they are (a) stupid, (b) trying to bankrupt their employer – a few, probably very few, may be in these categories but most will be sane sensible people who really believe this is either necessary to protect their livelihood or at least the least bad way to do so.

2. Why is BA’s management, not to mention everything they read in the press, 99% of comments from their passengers and probably the majority of discussions they have with their non-BA friends in the pub, so ineffective in changing their mind?

As I say, I do not think the crew are stupid, nor are they all saboteurs. So what is it?

[JonathanCohen09]

Hi Cedric,

two very good questions. If I knew the answers to both then i would almost certainly be a very wealthy guy as i would be the most sought after industrial relations consultant in the world.

I have said in this forum before, i would lock the two sides in a room and not let them out until they had reached an agreement.

Would be very interested to hear the opinions of others on Cedric’s post.

[lloydah]

In answer to your question Cedric, it may be the fear of the unknown, irrationally holding on to what you know rather than taking advice that you may only half believe. Although there are a cross section of age groups employed as BA CCs many I know are typically at an age when change can become both frightening and unsettling.
It may simply be the peer pressure put on the majority by the minority, a sort of misjudged cameradarie.
This is a very difficult question to answer and one which obviously has a variety of explanations depending upon your point of view.

[Author]

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