[Anonymous]

[Binman62]

Another forum on BKK airport has highlighted that this airport managed to get into the top ten airports of the world. It struck me that these awards are given out like sweeties and yet often the winners, as well as the losers surprise me. BKK being a good example.
Skytrax awards gave BKK a top ten place but equally it lists airlines such as Asiana, Malaysian Kingfisher and Qatar as 5 stars along with the likes of Cathay Singapore etc. Good though they might be these carriers are not in the same league.

Meanwhile Air New Zealand British Airways, Virgin Swiss and Lufthansa are classed in the same group as Garuda. Now we all have personal preferences but never in this world could Garuda be in the same league as any of the others.

Similarly the Top ten airport list….as detailed by TerrtMcManus24 has a few surprises.

WORLD’S TOP 10 AIRPORTS….2010
1 Singapore Changi Airport
2 Incheon International Airport
3 Hong Kong International Airport
4 Munich Airport
5 Kuala Lumpur International Airport
6 Zurich Airport
7 Amsterdam Schiphol Airport
8 Beijing Capital International Airport
9 Auckland Int’l Airport
10 Bangkok Suvarnabhumi Airport

For me these are BKK AKL and ZRH.

AKL and ZRH are all very nice but they are never top 10 material.

BKK is an extraordinary inclusion particularly as KIX is missing as is T5. Whilst I appreciate T5 is not an airport as such, where else is there a single airline terminal of this quality offering the range of flights and connections found there; not to mention the range and extent of lounges, retail and the superb hotel.

Does anyone take any notice of these awards? the skytrax ratings, for me at least are wholly discredited.

[MartynSinclair]

Call me a cynic Binman62, but how does an independant research company remain independant when it relies on income from advertising.

I agree with your post 100%

[Potakas]

”From June 2007 to July 2009, Garuda, along with all Indonesian airlines, was banned from flying to the EU. However, this ban has been lifted since July 2009.

Garuda Indonesia is listed as a 4-star airline by Skytrax, and is also listed among Skytrax’s Quality Approved Airlines. In May, the airline was named as the world’s most improved airlines by Skytrax during 2010 world airline awards in Hamburg.”

At least they named Garuda as a 4* Airline after the EU ban was lifted.

Agree with both of you and as VK posted once:

”One might add that Skytrax’s less than positive view of BA might be connected with the fact that BA refused to pay dues to Skytrax, which relies on membership dues from airlines to fund its ratings system.

So it’s hardly an impartial source.”

[Prof.Gupta]

Most of these awards (and research) have over the years become commercial propositions and have lost objectivity. This is happening in may areas and business domains e.g., hotels and restaurants, airlines, airports, business schools…and so on. Ratings and evaluation are not always serving the purpose that tehy should and it does not require a genie to design a research which serves some ulterior purpose! I agree with you all that many such research findings are nothing but unethical practice.

[JonathanCohen09]

Hello everyone,

this is indeed an interesting thread and I also agree with all of the above posts.

the question I would pose is can we as a group come up with a way of rating the various travel services that we all use so that it is some way that it is independent, non commercial and therefore, perhaps, more meaningful?

Perhaps there is already something out there that would fit the bill but if there is I am not aware of it.

I would really like to know what all of you my fellow posters think and look forward to seeing your constructive thoughts and ideas.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

[MartynSinclair]

Hi Jonathan – trust you are feeling the positive effects of rest!

My old school website (of purple blazers) used to run something similar where contributors could make entries under categories.

We have tried this here with i think dedicated threads for the BA stirke and I have just started one for the iPAD.

Not quite sure if BT could or would be willing to – but to have threads purely dedicated to Eateries, Airlines, Hotels etc where contributors could enter their experiences which could act as a reference point for others.

The main issue would be design costs and cost to run – however, the big advantage would be that as long as there were no sponsors then it would be truly independant.

Interesting possibilties – but at the end of the day, all of this IP belongs to BT and with an “open forum” there has to be a moderator otherwise, there can occasionally be a little over excitement (guilty as charged m’lud!!!).

G S!

[BABenji]

Mr Sinclair, would that not be going in broadly the same mould as Tripadvisor (I appreciate that Tripadvisor is aimed at desitinations rather than a means to get there)?

I certainly feel there is merit in allowing people to post their own flight experiences, i.e. allowing us to search a particular route and see what has been said and by whom about the carriers. This could be helpful in the case of taking connecting flights in regions where one is less familier with the carriers and the products offered. The reader could also make an informed decision as well, based upon who is writing the review/report.

Let’s face it, there are certain people who post on this forum, who are objective, constructive and open. These are the guys in whom I would be happy to place my trust re: a product I was unfamiliar with.

[MartynSinclair]

Hi BABenji

The beauty of this BT forum is that it is genuinely “open” to all. Trip advisor i think is not open to all, its only open to people who book through that portal.

There are plenty of other places to go and research, but personally, I would place more reliance on comments from the people within this forum, purely on the basis that in some wierd and strange way, you get to know them. I dont have the time to go from forum to forum, but I am extremely comfortable with BT and the characters within the forum and will trust what people say on here, once I am familiar with their posts.

For example, hotels I use octopustravel.com but if i have a question about a researched hotel, the question would be placed on here.

Martyn

[BABenji]

Nice to see we’re of a similar mind regarding the “characters” on this forum 🙂

I hadn’t appreciated that Tripadvisor was a closed system.

I feel that a route search facility, with defined fields, would be useful. It would prevent trawling through the discussion board history only to give up and re-post a question already answered.

It would also allow for changes and updates to services, i.e. introduction of a new product by an airline and which routes it is being rolled out on, improvements in certain facilities at airports (for example I avoid Bangkok when flying to Oz simply because the shower rooms in the Qantas lounge there were rubbish a few years ago. Have they improved? No idea!)

There is much more merit in the words of your fellow traveller, those who have to live and breath the same travel heaven and hell as you, than in any awards.

[NTarrant]

This is an interesting thread. Firstly, Tripadvisor is not closed, anyone can call up a hotel anywhere in the world, log in and make a comment about it. I have tended to do this on non chain hotels.

But there is difference between the BT forum and Tripadvisor. Martyn says he is comfortable with BT and the characters on the forum as is BABenji, well I too agree. Tripadvisor is very subjective and personal and my posts on there I try to be objective. I think in the main most of us are on this forum. I have certainly save some money as a result of some of the posts.

Awards are a different kettle of fish. I don’t hold much creedance with them if they have been determined by things which are not customer focused. The BT awards which we vote for have more creedance, although I do wonder if people vote in catergories that they don’t go to, for example say “best hotel in South Africa” I have never been so I would not vote for any. But other than that on the awards side the BT one is best.

[MartynSinclair]

Hi

Apologies if I got Trip Advisor wrong. I was under the impression that you could only posts comments on hotels if you had made reservations through the site. I know that it is “open” for research.

Martyn

[PsyDtoBe]

@Binman62: Regarding Garuda Indonesia, they actually improving a lot. with the introduction of individual AVOD in all classes, and full flat bed for long haul flight and angled flat for Asia Pacific flight + they are one of the only few airline that makes a lot of profit during the Economic Downturn.

here are some picture of their new Business Classes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Tm9nuXIEw&feature=related

[Inquisitive]

This thread started with a lament how BKK airport could be in top 10 and Heathrow T5 is not.

I understand some pride is hurt – but please be game. Skytrax rankings are quite okay – there could be a little biased, but overall the ranking is a good indication of airlines – in different classes, for airports etc.

BKK airport is certainly a very good airport considering overall layout and common area facilities (except immigration).

Heathrow overall as a airport is a third world experience (except T5) – actually I shall not use the third world comparison as some of them are much better than Heathrow. Even T5 layout is so funny, sometimes I do not bother to go to BA business lounge (south) due to the trouble I have to take. The design is such that all 747 and other large planes are parked at remote piers – so one has to take the shuttle and those planes carry maximum passengrs!

In other terminals, the common area facilities are a joke except shopping facilities. Most travelletors not in operation when I return from long haul flights at T3. Iris not in operation half the time. Lack of toilets at arrivals. Directions are hidden behind shops. Drops off are far from airport gate – there is a nice cover at T3, but on a rainy day – one have to run as no taxi is allowed nearer. Car rental shuttles are not with good frequency – the gas station near T3 was removed – the top up for car rental is difficult. I could list many others.

I have travelled to all the Skytrax listed top 10 airport – they are definitely better than Heathrow. Even some of the US airports are better than Heathrow. If someone says – T5 is very good, it is akin to stating Mumbai Arrival terminal facilities are very good – hence shall be considered for top 10.

[NTarrant]

Looks like you said it in the second sentence “there (think that should be they) could be a little biased” well that means the whole process if fundamentally flawed and therefore it is meaningless.

Your view on T5 and Heathrow is subjective and not all share the views that you have. A lot of the issues you raise about Heathrow can be applied to many airports around the world and things like car hire courtesy buses are provided by the rental companies.

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