World Traveller Plus
Back to Forum- This topic has 45 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 15 Jun 2012
at 08:28 by Binman62.
-
- Author
- Posts
- Skip to last reply Create Topic
-
openflyParticipantNTarrant I totally agree with you. By coincidence I met an excellent purser on my next flight ….he recognised me and thanked me for my comments that I had sent to BA. So it does work.
I know, for a fact, though, that it may be feedback to you, to try to address a problem, but all your complaints are logged and you are flagged up as a constant whinger. This fact appears for crew knowledge, along with your Gold status grade. There is a grading of Golds from just making the 1500 Tier points, and how much you have spent, up to a really good spender……..
3 Oct 2011
at 07:39
ScottWilsonParticipantHaving the same main meal in WT+ as in CW will be a great leap forward. WT+ for too long has been more like economy plus on UA, which is more legroom and a front cabin so first choice with economy meals. WT+ at least has wider seats and a greater recline.
Premium economy on QF, NZ, NH and VS all do that plus a noticeably higher standard of service, with catering service between Y and C classes (VS closer to Y, NZ closer to C, QF/NH in the middle). The new BA WT+ cabin is a nice enhancement to bring it closer to the VS standard of seat, it would be a real winner if it could outdo VS in overall catering experience.
3 Oct 2011
at 08:53
Stowage222ParticipantFrom what I’ve heard, CW hot entree, better wines, dripmats, menus (towels already implemented) is the ‘new’ WT+ service. The CW standard meal will be delivered from the trolley and the foil removed chairside. That leaves the customer to pour the sauce themselves.
3 Oct 2011
at 10:25
continentalclubParticipantUndoubtedly one of the problems facing ‘premium’ economy services is the huge variation in hard and soft product employed by those carriers offering some kind of inter-Y/J cabin.
Part of that comes, I suspect, from the original catalysts for a marginally better product than economy – ‘economy-and-a-bit’. Pioneers of the idea approached it from two angles, it seems. One Far East carrier attacked the niche with traditional business class seats on a limited route network aiming to conquest from competitors.
Another Western airline reportedly pursued a premium product as it was felt that the (then) slightly hysterical reaction to DVT (though not from those few that had actually personally suffered from its horrors), rendered the provision of a product which addressed the (unproven) connection between DVT and purely economy seat pitch and width, with an only slightly more costly fare an almost essential commercial and risk-management strategy.
What then seems to have happened is that those carriers actually found the concept quite profitable, which didn’t go unnoticed by competitors, and so all sorts of additional interpretations entered the marketplace – their specifications largely reflecting the ambitions, business models and access to capital of each airline – rather than conforming to any ‘standard’ idea of what a longhaul economy-and-a-bit should look like.
So, we ended up with BA having developed its all-route, all-flight WTP cabin with a given set of amenities that are definitely ‘premium’ economy, and bmi with its limited network going with its huge seat and effective business ‘minus’ strategy. Only one, of course, has survived.
United and KLM debuted with another all-route, all-service strategy, which comes in the form of an economy seat, but more spaced out – economy ‘plus’, for want of a better description.
Air France and ANA have gone down a more revolutionary route with hard-shell seats on a limited but growing number of routes, alighting some way between ‘premium’ economy and business ‘minus’.
Air New Zealand offered a bigger seat, but couldn’t standardise it across their fleet of 777s and 747s, and couldn’t fit either the 777 or 747 seat on its 767s which serve Japan. It, however, went with Business Premier catering on both 747s and 777s as an advertisable amenity. One of the reasons for this was practical rather than commercial however; the hybrid upper deck with a single galley couldn’t be efficient with two service regimes, so business prevailed. As the 747s are phased out, that requirement is removed.
Virgin did something between BD and NZ, with big seats and slightly upgraded soft product, including premium check in. However VS couldn’t standardise the seats either and there can be two completely different hard products depending on whether you fly a Gatwick/Manchester route, or a Heathrow route.
Qantas is somewhere between BA and NZ/VS, and now BA have apparently decided to develop World Traveller Plus into something comparable to the current, well-regarded, Qantas product.
With the exception of ANA and Eva then, the Far and Middle Eastern airlines have largely kept out of the economy-and-a-bit niche, though many would contend that the wide variability of business class-titled products in the region (from Singapore and Emirates in particular) effectively mean that those carriers do indeed have an EAAB product…..
The latest fanfaring has come from Air New Zealand, with their innovative but apparently unpopular ‘spaceseat’ and, of course, from Cathay Pacific:
The interesting, but thus far apparently un-commented upon, characteristic of CX’s much anticipated and eventual entry into the market is that so-far, the only aircraft which are slated for embodiment with whatever the new seat turns out to be, will be three-class.
The question must therefore be, I’d have thought, whether this is really going to be an EAAB product at all or, in combination with what most commentators consider to be one of the world’s best business class seats (now being rolled-out by Cathay) will their ‘premium economy’ cabin in fact simply be a new business class, with New Business Class a de facto new first class, and Cathay’s small-cabin First product quietly consigned to history?
Until Cathay announce a four-cabin aircraft, that must be a possibility, surely?
If a three class future is the case, and Cathay find success with whatever their new product is, then it probably means that four-class carriers such as Qantas and (new WTP) BA will probably have got it about right with their products, with their route network characteristics and fleet size in mind.
If Cathay go four class however, and their product is a success worthy of benchmarking, then BA and QF might equally likely find themselves well off-the-pace.
Unless the market coalesces around some kind of product standard though, and its pricing likewise, it will continue to pay to research carrier products in this market very carefully before purchase, and to understand that the marginal additional cost of EAAB products on some carriers (KL, UA) compared to a more significant differential (QF, VS) is for a reason. Indeed on KL and UA, the cost could be zero as a definable benefit for FFP members.
Which is, in itself, another interesting factor affecting product specification; Virgin offers premium check-in to their Premium Economy passengers, whilst British Airways does not in general for World Traveller Plus. However, the latter’s Executive Club FFP offers status to those flying regularly on domestic and shorthaul services, thereby affording them not only premium check-in (which is something of the past anyhow with online check in etc) but also lounge access and fast-track. Virgin cardholders can mostly only earn status through longhaul flights, so far fewer can likely benefit from amenities such as priority check-in and therefore the carrier has deemed it commercially advantageous to package the amenity as part of the service.
Personally, I’ve only flown a few EAAB services as I tend to struggle to appreciate the value, but I do observe that very many people find them extremely attractive – even World Traveller Plus.
3 Oct 2011
at 12:54
DisgustedofSwieqiParticipantOn a day flight of circa 7 hours, WTP is a perfectly acceptable product, IMHO.
But there are a lot of competitive business class offers out there and I prefer to buy these, especially as I usually fly overnight.
3 Oct 2011
at 13:16
GetsAroundParticipantIn regards to the comments of crew “just doing their job” and not going the “extra mile”. Do you apply this in your own daily experiences.. in your own jobs? Each and every day you go to work can you honestly say you go the “extra mile” and do much more than what is asked of you? Every day? To everyone?
In a restaurant if a waiter does their job properly, do you walk out feeling peeved, thinking they didn’t go the extra mile? If a shop assistant serves you capably, do you walk out feeling put out, thinking they didn’t go the extra mile?
If a crew member serves you politely and appropriately “doing their job” why do you think they haven’t satisfied you? What is the “extra mile” you want from them?
Why are Flight Attendants thought of always having to go much further?
I’m simply curious, not having a go at anyone.3 Oct 2011
at 14:28
DisgustedofSwieqiParticipantRich
On the website, you can only upgrade one class with miles.
The advantage of WTP to Club is it takes 50% less miles than from economy to WTP or Club to First.
Not sure if the secret squirrel section of the gold card gang get preferential treatment and can upgrade 2 classes.
3 Oct 2011
at 14:53
famouschickenParticipantcurrent info on BAEC website:
“To calculate how many BA Miles are needed to upgrade your flight to a specific cabin:
Multiply the number of BA Miles by the correct base multiplier rate for each cabin from the table below.
Economy to World Traveller Plus x0.5
Economy to Club / Business1 x1
World Traveller Plus to Club x0.5
Club / Business to First x1
Economy to First x2 (applies to upgrades on American Airlines bookings only)
*Eligible booking classes are as follows:
British Airways: J, C, D, R, I, W, E, T, Y, B, H
American Airlines and Iberia: J, C, D, Y, B”3 Oct 2011
at 15:24
FlyingChinamanParticipantContinentalclub: Good summary of the various Premium economy class on offer currently.
Knowing Cathay and the expectation of their home-based passengers, I am confident that it will be a “class” of it’s own and very likely setting the benchmark trend for future business travel.
For Cathay to succeed and prosper it must have consistant hardware/software product across it’s entire fleet!
No China Roulette!!! Passengers hate that uncertainty!
One only need to see a large part of the world is going through trememdous economic troubles and there is great pressure for companies to reduce travel cost and for the airlines getting it right will be able to capture new businesses.
Happy travel times ahead to all!!!
3 Oct 2011
at 15:46
continentalclubParticipantNo gold card here and my nuts are nowhere near my cheeks, covertly or otherwise, but I can confirm that the only way to actively upgrade on British Airways is by one cabin class.
From all cabins other than World Traveller, it’s possible to upgrade to the next operating cabin, subject to availability, with miles from any published fare. From World Traveller (to World Traveller Plus) it is only possible to upgrade from the more expensive fare booking classes (Y/B/H):
There are no provisions for members with status to enjoy any variation from the above policies.
So-called ‘double upgrades’ can and do occur, of course, principally for two reasons. The first is purely operational and is usually the result of a passenger/group ticketed in one oversold cabin matching precisely the seat availability in a higher cabin, often at the very last minute and regularly with a nod to status. So, a party of three Golds travelling in World Traveller would be easier to locate and move in the minutes before departure than three individual statusless passengers in World Traveller Plus. It’s reportedly rare, but I’m aware that it does happen – on many airlines.
The second is a quirk of the booking system with BA. Thus it’s occasionally possible for a revenue ticket to be upgraded with miles into the next cabin, and then find subsequently that a ‘pro-active upgrade’ is offered online, allowing the passenger to pay a fixed amount in cash to upgrade to the next cabin again. When this occurs, it seems that the system doesn’t spot the fact that the booking is already upgraded.
I may be wrong on this, but I think I’ve also heard report of the odd occasion when a revenue booking has been upgraded with cash following an online invitation as described above, that it’s been possible sometimes to use miles to go to the next cabin again when last minute redemption seats have opened up.
It’s not how the system is meant to work, and there is no guarantee of ever being able to benefit from it, but it may currently be a lovely little glitch that makes a few passengers very happy.
3 Oct 2011
at 16:04
HonestCrewParticipantGetsAround makes an interesting point there about ‘going the extra mile’ and the expectations of flying customers.
What sort of things are expected, what do crew need to do to exceed expectations and what does an airline expect from their employees?
I am interested to know, I’ll start a thread in the next couple of days, I hope to hear some opinions.
Cheers.6 Oct 2011
at 16:15
RichHI1ParticipantHonest Crew, in answer to your question, my views for what small amount they are worth.
Going the extra mile examples could be seen as the job but from a passenger perspective…
Everything working efficiently without anyone making it obvious
When I look around ofr help with hanging my coat, headphones that don’t work, wrong meal choice, flight attendants respond to the call button and do not continue chatting
When special meal is not loaded or preferred choice is not available, checking other cabins to see if there is anything suitabel there (Low fat, no meat, not spicy, no nuts, no shellfish, no etc etc etc.
Learn how to produce gourmet food from highly non gourmet reheat ovens
Some flight attendants have even assembled a special meal out of parts of other meals. really appreciated on 11 hour flight.
Remembering passenger name (I find BA and AA are both excellent at this one)
Helping passengers when they lose a pen or something in the seat
Silencing noisy passengers, adult or children
sorting out the toilets when the pigs have been at them
presence in the cabin during the flight. Japanese flight attendants are always present during lfihgt even though they ar every quiet. On BA, AA and many western carriers, after meal serviceand turn down you often never see anyone for hour after hour. Sometimes you would like something but feel mean pushing the call button just for that…
having a superhuman knowledge of cr*p IFE systems so when it breaks down repeatedly they can fix it without Groudn Maintenance having to do their job and fix it properly.
Understanding that peace is a valuable commodity and not oveusing the PA system.
Protecting my complaining grumpy self when things wrong… 🙂6 Oct 2011
at 16:57
rfergusonParticipantPremium Economy is a funny one. Different airlines have different takes on it. At present at BA it is basically WT…plus more space and a bigger seat. But that decision was taken when we had far fewer competitors in that market. Now many airlines are offering the product (and a better one at that).
I was blown away when I flew Qantas in Premium Economy. Pre departure drinks, cutlery and crockery. The food was the same as Y but better presented. But I also noticed that for the cabin of 30-something seats on the A380 aircraft they had two cabin crew dedicated to that cabin….enabling a much higher level of service. In contrast, at BA we have one crew member for the World Traveller Plus cabin (36 seats).
I actually had an interesting conversation with a QF manager a couple months ago whom was travelling on duty travel on my SYD flight. I was saying how impressed I was with QF’s onboard service in W and he actuially stated it was becoming a victim of its own success and the offering was likely to be scaled back as it was poaching J class passengers.
As for the ‘breakfast box’ on the BKK-SYD leg. I agree, this is rubbish…even for economy let alone WT+. Imagine, we serve the same thing as a ‘second service’ in WT/WT+ on even longer flights (ie LAX/MEX). In fact even in Club there is no hot meal option for breakfast on those routes which I think is pretty poor.
6 Oct 2011
at 18:59 -
AuthorPosts