[AMcWhirter]

Media speculation today that Germany’s Deutsche Bahn could launch Frankfurt-London high-speed ICE trains “in the next three years.”

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/highspeed-london-to-frankfurt-train-service-to-launch-within-three-years-a3479571.html

Readers will recall that we covered the previous attempts by DB (to launch high-speed trains to London) over a number of years dating back to before the London Olympics.

It took DB years to gain approval for its ICE trains to use the Channel Tunnel. But after gaining approval. DB decided t abandon its London plans as we reported in February 2014.

Deutsche Bahn postpones London rail service

Later DB decided to operate its own bus services to London which were, of course, in total contrast to its swish ICEs.

Deutsche Bahn buses coming to London

Time will tell whether or not this latest attempt by DB will come to fruition.

[TominScotland]

Sounds interesting, Alex and great post-Brexit timing.

Does this mean that the DB train will high-speed it to Dover and then wait about 4 hours while all non-UK passport holders have their visas checked by UK Border personnel and all passengers are subjected to a full Customers search with tariffs paid on all goods of a value greater than £25.00?

[MartynSinclair]

What is the maximum number of trains per hour that can use the chunnel (during the business day) & when is it likely the chunnel will reach max capacity?

I like the idea of my local station to FRA Hbf. The total journey time will be similar, but with everything chunnel I do not find the cost competitive.

I wonder how border controls are going to deal with post Brexit travel (on the train) 750 passengers come hurtling through the chunnel with up to 400 trains per day (some are freight I know).

[AMcWhirter]

TominScotland – You make a good point.

Security and passport checks are a complex issue for rail firms. And nobody can tell what the passport/security situation will be like in a few years’ time.

But *if* the service were to start now then the checks would either be carried out in Germany or when the ICE reaches Lille (as happens now with the Eurostar services running from Lyon/Marseilles) to London. (Eurostar passengers travelling from Brussels/Paris are checked before the train departs).

Channel Tunnel rules specify that all passengers be security checked *before* the train enters the Tunnel.

DB needed approval from the Channel Tunnel authorities for its ICE trains to use the Tunnel. It took years before that approval was granted.

But DB’s initial plans did force incumbent Eurostar to modernise its fleets with the same Siemens trains which DB had planned to, and could still, operate.

[AMcWhirter]

MartynSinclair – The Tunnel is already busy during the daytime. The different trains (Eurostar/Shuttle/freight) operate at different speeds so it’s a challenge for the controllers to fit them all in.

I doubt if DB’s ICEs will accommodate so many passengers. One suspects that they will be shorter in length than those used by Eurostar.

DB’s original plans called for a long train but then it would be split at Brussels Midi with one portion going to Amsterdam and the other heading for Cologne/Frankfurt.

The latest Siemens Eurostar trainsets accommodate 900 passengers (the older Alstom trainsets accommodate 750).

[AMcWhirter]

Update. DB now sounding a little less keen.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/europe/db-still-interested-in-london-frankfurt-services.html

[LuganoPirate]

What a pity. Apart from some competition on the route I was looking forward to traveling this route on the German trains. For me traveling from London to Lugano it would mean just one or two easy changes (Frankfurt and possibly Basel) rather than the current three or four. It would also cut 3 hours from the journey which is also welcome.

[Charles-P]

As somebody who is a regular Eurostar user I have noticed a drop off in passenger numbers so I am surprised DB thinks there is a demand. Already there have been cuts in the number of Brussels – London trains because of a lack of demand.

[MartynSinclair]

@Charles-P, is it lack of demand or the high prices being charged for European rail travel ex-London? Yes you can get to Paris / Brussels cheaply, but not beyond..

I would love to use Eurostar + DB for travel to Germany/Swiss, but not at £600 a throw..

[Charles-P]

Martyn – Good point and I agree the service is far from cheap however I do find the journey much more relaxing than the alternatives for me (Brussels-London Heathrow or Antwerp-London City).

[AMcWhirter]

MartynSinclair – In fact we have already reported on falling demand on the Brussels route.

Eurostar to cut Brussels services

The latter has taken the brunt of the cuts. In addition the Brussels route is still not cleared (by the Belgian authorities) for Eurostar to operate its new Siemens trainsets. Therefore the latter are currently in service on London-Paris only.

Eurostar is running endless seat sales (the current one expires March 16) as it struggles to fill surplus capacity.

[MartynSinclair]

I was referring to beyond Paris/Brussels. When I was looking at options for my Bern trip, “the train” from London priced itself at £600+ for an inflexible return. To encourage passengers to benefit from a far longer journey time, the prices need to be competitive.

[LuganoPirate]

I agree Martyn, the prices are awful but like Charles I love travelling by train. What I have done on a few occasions was to travel on the cheapest 2nd class ticket from Ashford to Lille, then change onto European trains at much more reasonable prices for 1st class travel. My typical route then was Brussels, Rotterdam, Dusseldorf, Luxembourg, Strasbourg, Freiburg, Basel, Lugano and clearly for that train made much more sense than plane. The change in Lille was a minor inconvenience compared to the savings I’d make travelling Eurostar through to Brussels.

My tickets I’d either purchase through the DB or SBB website and having a half fare card for Switzerland meant I’d get 25% off the non Swiss sectors.

I’ve also found buying tickets this way is much cheaper than buying them in the UK and the SBB will send the tickets to you in the UK.

It’s also worth looking at the Interrail passes.
http://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/europe-worldwide/europe-by-train/Interrail.html

[Charles-P]

To link in with the pricing discussion above the Belgian State Rail operator offers an ‘any Belgian station’ option when booking on Eurostar or Thalys trains allowing one to continue the journey within Belgium without further cost. I have used this to travel onward to home form Brussels at no cost.

[MartynSinclair]

@LP – its all well and good for the likes of those able to work out the solution to cheaper train prices – but I think travellers are put off by the opaque costing and inability to search for economic prices…

When the train operators can coordinate the prices and the likes of kayak / expedia & co able to offer discounted tickets to the mass market, I think then passenger numbers will increase.

I look forward to going to my local overland station in north London and spending 6 to 7 hours on a train to Europe, but not when the cost is 7 – 8 times more than flying. I would also imagine once sensible pricing models come in, that the trains will cater for business travel, not just in terms of the seat and catering, but the ability to work effectively with a good internet connection.

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