[FDOS_UK]

FDOS_uk States the system is foolproof.

++++

No I didn’t , I said it fails safe (the default is that VAT is paid to HMRC, unless a BP for a destination outside the EC is produced.)

Regarding Geneva Airport, Switzerland is not part of the EC Fiscal VAT area, which comprises of:

Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus, including the British Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (but excluding the United Nations buffer zone and the part of Cyprus to the north of the buffer zone, where the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise effective control)
Czech Republic
Denmark, except the Faroe Islands and Greenland
Estonia
Finland
France, including Monaco
Germany, except Busingen and the Isle of Heligoland
Greece
Hungary
The Republic of Ireland
Italy, except the communes of Livigno and Campione d’Italia and the Italian waters of Lake Lugano
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
Poland
Portugal, including the Azores and Madeira
Romania
Slovakia
Spain, including the Balearic Islands but excluding Ceuta and Melilla
Slovenia
Sweden
United Kingdom and the Isle of Man.
(Source: VAT Notice 703.)

So you exported the goods from the EC, since Geneva Airport/Switzerland is not in the above list.

Let me cite the European Comission http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/travellers/within_eu/index_en.htm:

Travelling within Switzerland (or other non-EU countries)

If you travel from one EU Member State to another through Switzerland (or another non-EU country), you may carry goods for personal use without border formalities as long as the thresholds set out for the entry into Switzerland/re-entry into the EU are not exceeded. If you carry quantities exceeding those thresholds, declare them when entering Switzerland and when re-entering the EU. In Switzerland you may be requested to provide a financial guarantee which you get back when you leave the country with the goods. On re-entry into the EU you must declare these goods. No duties apply if you can prove that they come from another EU country and are intended for personal use.

One can state categorically, that had you stepped through customs into Switzerland, you could lawfully carry a certain amount of duty free goods on to Greece and as there is no prohibition of not clearing customs, my assumption is that you were within your rights to buy duty free goods, but maybe Ian from HKG would cast a lawyers sharp eyes over my assumption and give us a view?

[MrMichael]

Sorry for the confusion. I bought the goods at LHR using my LHR-GVA boarding pass. On arrival at GVA I then changed to a flight to Heraklion. Was what I did legal? I did go outside the EU, although never officially landed ( landed as in pass through immigration in to Switzerland proper).

[SimonS1]

I suspect in the eyes of the UK authorities what you did was legal. You could debate whether the onward trip to Greece meant that you should after all have paid VAT after all, however I doubt you are the type of tax dodger that they are really after.

[FDOS_UK]

Was what I did legal?
++++++++

IMHO, as Geneva Airport is not in an EC Fiscal state, you were entitled to purchase Duty Free, as you exported it in accordance with the rules and then re-imported it into Greece.

Please see my post above.

More to the point, the shop will have properly coded the VAT as ‘zero rate’, since you produced a BP to an non-EC Fiscal state destination.

[SimonS1]

If the traveller was in transit in Switzerland and remained airside then I don’t see how they have imported anything into the country.

However when buying the goods a Switzerland BP was used then I agree the retailer acted properly.

[FDOS_UK]

Simon

I don’t see anything requiring import – only export from an EC fiscal state.

My citation of the regulation was simply to show that it is definitely lawful to import into CH and re-export to an EC fiscal state, but I couldn’t find anything that said it was mandatory to import – thus my wondering if Ian from HKG (a lawyer) would have a different view.

[SimonS1]

I understand that – I just don’t see why if you are in transit any import/export comes into it as far as Switzerland is concerned.

In other words if you are going London – Geneva – Athens and remain in transit it’s as if you went straight from London – Athens. So the goods are not leaving the EU.

If you showed a BP for a London – Geneva journey the item would be VAT exempt. However if Geneva was just a transit then the true journey is London to Athens and VAT payable.

[FDOS_UK]

Simon

As far as I’m concerned, when you take it onto the aircraft, you exported it and you land in Switzerland, which is not EC fiscal territory, so it’s gone. Even though you are in transit, you are still outside the EC.

The fact you don’t import it through customs, seems to me, irrelevant, as you fly from the non-EC country and import it into Greece, where it is allowed as your duty free allowance, from a non-EU airport (assuming it complies with limits.)

Now either I’m missing something or it is a grey area that no one really cares about in the bigger scheme of things 😉

We need a lawyers mind, I think.

[SimonS1]

As far as I’m aware if you are in transit between two international flights you don’t clear customs and neither the traveller nor the goods enter the country of transit. No declarations of any form are required and the goods are not imported.

Therefore going from A to C via B is the same as going from A to C directly. The fact that you happened to land in B is not relevant as you never ‘entered’ the country.

If you leave the airside area of the airport that’s a different thing, as you have to to go through the red, green or blue channel which is the point at which the goods are imported and enter the country.

I don’t think it’s a grey area.

[FDOS_UK]

So what happens if you try to buy tax free goods in the GVA shop? Do they refuse to sell them to you, because you are in transit and have not left the EC?

[Andrew66]

Only if you refuse to show your boarding card !!! Lol 🙂

Thinking about when I have bought stuff , they scan the card and then seem to tap in the flight number ??
Does the scanning of the barcode collect data for the retailer use ( type of product / type of customer info ) for marketing use and then the flight code input for HMRC purpose regarding VAT or No VAT due ?
Because if they just tap in a non EU flight number because the passenger refuses to show their BP then the company doesn’t have to pay VAT on that purchase .

[openfly]

T5 security now require a boarding card scan just prior to Fastrack. I used an old CPT-JNB boarding card last week….yup it worked! What’s that all about?

Then went into Boots and was asked for my boarding card for my Polos. Same CPT-JNB old boarding card….yup it worked!

What a farce…..

[FDOS_UK]

Andrew66 – 25/08/2015 06:32 BST

Scanning the BP concerns me.

The barcode contains potentially quite a lot of personal data (e.g. FF number) and what is collected and how it is used is opaque – I will not let them scan the barcode as the info is encrypted.

I have always shown them the bar code and let them key in the flight number, if they wish, but scanning is a no-no.

So WHS and Boots can certainly key the number if they want to. I don’t care if manual entry takes longer than an automated scan – it’s my data, not theirs and they need to remember who is a revenue source and who is a cost centre 🙂

Collecting customer information without consent is against the data protection principles.

openfly – 25/08/2015 07:42 BST

The boarding pass scan is to show how long it takes to clear security – you would think that they should do it after your bags have been scanned, but cynically that may make SLAs hard to achieve.

I just decline to scan the BP and if they kick up, ask for a supervisor – it is not a condition of travel to comply.

When asked by a supervisor why I did not want t comply, I shared my assumption and said I didn’t want to be party to collecting skewed data.

Having anticipated an argument, I was surprised when he said ‘when you put it that way, its a fair point.’

[SimonS1]

@FDOS – what you can buy in Swiss airports is shown on their websites. You are subject to allowances as the goods sold in Swiss airports are duty free (albeit expensive).

When you arrive in Greece you should therefore have two lots of goods – tax and duty paid from another EU country, and duty free from a non EU country.

[Tom Otley]

FDOS_UK – 25/08/2015 08:20 BST
Andrew66 – 25/08/2015 06:32 BST
Scanning the BP concerns me.
The barcode contains potentially quite a lot of personal data (e.g. FF number) and what is collected and how it is used is opaque – I will not let them scan the barcode as the info is encrypted.
I have always shown them the bar code and let them key in the flight number, if they wish, but scanning is a no-no.
So WHS and Boots can certainly key the number if they want to. I don’t care if manual entry takes longer than an automated scan – it’s my data, not theirs and they need to remember who is a revenue source and who is a cost centre 🙂
Collecting customer information without consent is against the data protection principles

Yes, and particularly worrying with the increase in hacking of personal data….

WHSmith ‘bug’ spreads customer data

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34127538

[Author]

Posts