When will travel return?

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Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 105 total)

  • Swissdiver
    Participant

    Things are indeed changing too fast to make presumptions. But watching other countries can help. China being a special case in many aspects, I prefer to concentrate on what happens in Europe. At this stage, it seems we have two cases to follow:

    Austria announced the government wants to start the “back to normal process” soon. I guess https://www.sozialministerium.at/Informationen-zum-Coronavirus.html will be the place to watch (in German as the English version is only partially updated)

    Switzerland will announce its plan on Thursday, April 16th. The government promised the first measures to be enacted before the end of the month. Politically they will have to as the extension by one week (until the 26th) of the semi-confinement was a political compromise (Swiss made).

    Of course, the solutions these two countries will implement might not work in countries where rules are not followed as we do. Still it will help.


    transtraxman
    Participant

    From what you write it seems that no special measures are taken at Heathrow, and by extension that means nor are they taken at other points of entry into the UK.That makes me think that the UK is not taking this pandemic seriously. If that is the case then the only curve the UK will see, will be upwards. Then Boris and his government will have a lot to answer for. In Spain at present there are extremely restrictive measures being taken and it is taking a tremendous effort to reduce the number of infections.But we are getting there.

    In the UK with 660 parties stopped by police in Greater Manchester, a funeral with 60 persons attending and refusing to disperse, some well-oiled individuals hiring a private plane to take them off for the weekend to the French Riviera – all show a lack of explanation/education by Boris and his team on the importance of the measures taken and the dangers of ignoring those measures. Or is it that too many people are so egoistic, selfish, and could not give a damn about themselves or others. This virus is already mutating with four different strains in Europe.

    Returning directly to MartynSinclair´s post I think the UK should follow, at least, if not lead the measures to be taken at travel entry points. Either we take the lead and show the example to follow or the UK becomes a backwater. If the EU dictated their norms they would have total or partial restrictions on movement of people from or through the UK, resulting in a total loss of traffic. The added effect would be that if the European Union as a block or the countries individually took the lead and showed the way forward then the famous exit referendum will be shown for what it is. It will be shown to be a political “con” with no benefit at all for the UK, but tremendous demerits.

    The UK government must get its act together. Maybe Boris´experiences over the last week will have illuminated him at last.


    canucklad
    Participant

    Enjoyed reading your comments Martyn .

    Just off a call catching up with family from Melbourne, and the inevitable chat around the impact of the virus

    As for the UK, still lock down and social distancing appears not to be enforced at Heathrow airport with numerous passenger flight arrivals/departures to / from virus epi centres on a daily basis (New York, Rome and Madrid) with zero medical checks on passengers. If this is how the UK currently operates, i doubt they will place any medical controls post virus.

    I’m not an Epidemiologist , so have the luxury of being a 3rd rate armchair quarterback on the subject, but as we now enter our 4th week at home I wonder why it has gone so badly wrong on our UK shores compared to most other countries, such as Australia ?

    When travel starts to normalise post virus, I see the Asian countries leading the way, implementing stricter medical controls for passenger movements, both arriving and departing.

    I’ll bore the forum again, but…..
    One thing for sure, we know how and where the most recent & most virulent threats to our global health have originated . And until that countries ruling body goes further than tinkering with removing canines and felines from what’s allowed to be bought and killed (in that order) at these wildlife markets then the movement of people close to these virus incubation markets must be curtailed.

    On going quarantine rules/requirements will be an issue depending on when these will be relaxed.

    Hopefully as our governments learn and adapt they’ll collectively plan a robust exit stagety that see’s the end of this virus once and for all, and reduce the risk of another endemic never mind pandemic.
    It’s not acceptable that billions have their life turned upside down and even worse lose relatives before their time and at the end of it all, the core problem still exists !


    SimonS1
    Participant

    From what you write it seems that no special measures are taken at Heathrow, and by extension that means nor are they taken at other points of entry into the UK.That makes me think that the UK is not taking this pandemic seriously. If that is the case then the only curve the UK will see, will be upwards.

    With the greatest of respect I’m not sure whether you have any type of scientific or medical expertise, but it’s quite obvious to anyone here that the UK Government is taking the pandemic seriously.

    There is some evidence the curve is starting to flatten and is not massively different from experiences is Spain and Italy. However there remain clear priorities and the focus is social distancing rather than the relatively small number of passengers arriving at Heathrow (many of whom are UK nationals and this entitled to enter the country).

    By all means have a sensible debate but making comments like this really is a bit silly and doesn’t add to your credibility as a poster.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    However there remain clear priorities and the focus is social distancing rather than the relatively small number of passengers arriving at Heathrow (many of whom are UK nationals and this entitled to enter the country).

    I would not call 10 – 15 wide bodies a day coming into Heathrow from the USA (as they have for the past 3 weeks) “a relatively small number of passengers” nor would I consider a number of daily flights from Europe the same.

    I have made it quite clear i am not a medic but you do not need to be a medic to accept factually, New York is considered an epi centre of the virus.


    canucklad
    Participant

    I would not call 10 – 15 wide bodies a day coming into Heathrow from the USA (as they have for the past 3 weeks) “a relatively small number of passengers” nor would I consider a number of daily flights from Europe the same.

    Totally agree, many experts agree that Spain’s woes spiralled out of control due to Valencia fans returning home from their teams Champions League match with Atalanta in Bergamo
    My relative was telling me that anyone arriving into Australia immediately gets put on a bus and whisked away into enforced quarantine for 2 weeks regardless of residency or citizenship . Sounds eminently sensible to me, and possibly why Australia has been in lock down as long as us but only has 60 deaths ?


    esselle
    Participant

    I would not call 10 – 15 wide bodies a day coming into Heathrow from the USA (as they have for the past 3 weeks) “a relatively small number of passengers” nor would I consider a number of daily flights from Europe the same.

    Totally agree, many experts agree that Spain’s woes spiralled out of control due to Valencia fans returning home from their teams Champions League match with Atalanta in Bergamo
    My relative was telling me that anyone arriving into Australia immediately gets put on a bus and whisked away into enforced quarantine for 2 weeks regardless of residency or citizenship . Sounds eminently sensible to me, and possibly why Australia has been in lock down as long as us but only has 60 deaths ?

    Agree. My eldest daughter lives in Melbourne, and she cannot understand why we have such leaky borders here in UK. 14 days in “iso” to protect the country from the “rona”. I think I am right in saying that Australia also escaped relatively unscathed from the Spanish flu epidemic by having strict border protocols.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    However there remain clear priorities and the focus is social distancing rather than the relatively small number of passengers arriving at Heathrow (many of whom are UK nationals and this entitled to enter the country).

    I would not call 10 – 15 wide bodies a day coming into Heathrow from the USA (as they have for the past 3 weeks) “a relatively small number of passengers” nor would I consider a number of daily flights from Europe the same.

    I have made it quite clear i am not a medic but you do not need to be a medic to accept factually, New York is considered an epi centre of the virus.

    By relatively, I mean relative to the number of flights normally coming in.

    Heathrow capacity has been cut by 75%, the number of flights from USA is now in single figures, mainly flights repatriation British nationals.

    Australia is a completely different case. And to be honest Canucklad what seems eminently sensible to you has been described by a qualified medical practitioner on the ground as a “disaster”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/hotel-quarantine-a-disaster-and-vulnerable-people-should-be-allowed-home-doctor-says

    Ststistics can be made to suit any circumstances such as your recent point about Ghana (that other epicentre of world travel?).

    I don’t doubt in the fullness of time there will be valid questions to be asked about many things, however anyone who comes on here saying “the UK is not taking the pandemic seriously” just risks making themself look a bit silly.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    I don’t doubt in the fullness of time there will be valid questions to be asked about many things, however anyone who comes on here saying “the UK is not taking the pandemic seriously” just risks making themself look a bit silly.

    agreed.

    With regards to my constant concerns about Heathrow, i wish one of the Forum’s medics would explain why the Heathrow position is not considered high risk and provide reassurance that letting people in unchecked does not form additional risk. remember, 1 infected person can cause hundreds to be infected, well that’s according to the modelling presented by the experts

    If it’s not a risk, why close the airports, am sure some people still want to travel to countries still open


    canucklad
    Participant

    however anyone who comes on here saying “the UK is not taking the pandemic seriously” just risks making themself look a bit silly.

    Hi Simon, I’m not suggesting that our government isn’t taking this seriously. They clearly are , and doing what they think is right. As I said earlier I’ve got the luxury of being able to opine, and those opinions aren’t going to kill anybody.

    And I absolutely wouldn’t want to be in the shoes of those who have to give advice, and even worse , definitely wouldn’t want to be in the shoes of those making decisions that are impacting each and every one of us.

    However , at times it comes across to me as if they’ve put all their eggs in the lock down basket, and see it as some sort of panacea . I personally just don’t get the feeling they’re pro- actively tackling the problem. I really hpe I’m wrong !

    What’s heart breaking here is our numbers . And I’ll repeat what I said, why o why was I in a crowded immigration hall at EDI that was full of passengers arriving from all over Europe and further , but specifically from Spain and more perniciously at the time ” Italy “which was already in serious trouble

    And no disrespect, but applauding the NHS every Thursday night might have a feel good factor for a few moments but its not going to get us out of this any quicker.

    And the longer it takes us to get back to normal the higher the cost it will be for us all in the long term.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Hi Simon, I’m not suggesting that our government isn’t taking this seriously. They clearly are , and doing what they think is right.

    I was responding to the comments by transtraxman.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    With regards to my constant concerns about Heathrow, i wish one of the Forum’s medics would explain why the Heathrow position is not considered high risk and provide reassurance that letting people in unchecked does not form additional risk. remember, 1 infected person can cause hundreds to be infected, well that’s according to the modelling presented by the experts

    If it’s not a risk, why close the airports, am sure some people still want to travel to countries still open

    I appreciate it’s a risk, however clearly one that the Government and airport have considered in the light of medical and scientific advice, and the need to repatriate people stuck abroad.

    Personally I am happy to place reliance of those giving the advice. After all if any of us had better medical/scientific skills and knowledge I’m sure we wouldn’t be sat here debating it.


    esselle
    Participant

    However there remain clear priorities and the focus is social distancing rather than the relatively small number of passengers arriving at Heathrow (many of whom are UK nationals and this entitled to enter the country).

    I would not call 10 – 15 wide bodies a day coming into Heathrow from the USA (as they have for the past 3 weeks) “a relatively small number of passengers” nor would I consider a number of daily flights from Europe the same.

    I have made it quite clear i am not a medic but you do not need to be a medic to accept factually, New York is considered an epi centre of the virus.

    By relatively, I mean relative to the number of flights normally coming in.

    Heathrow capacity has been cut by 75%, the number of flights from USA is now in single figures, mainly flights repatriation British nationals.

    Australia is a completely different case. And to be honest Canucklad what seems eminently sensible to you has been described by a qualified medical practitioner on the ground as a “disaster”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/hotel-quarantine-a-disaster-and-vulnerable-people-should-be-allowed-home-doctor-says

    Ststistics can be made to suit any circumstances such as your recent point about Ghana (that other epicentre of world travel?).

    I don’t doubt in the fullness of time there will be valid questions to be asked about many things, however anyone who comes on here saying “the UK is not taking the pandemic seriously” just risks making themself look a bit silly.

    Simon S1

    What are you troubled by in the Australian approach; the principle, or the way it is being executed? Or are you just rubbishing the whole idea?


    SimonS1
    Participant

    However there remain clear priorities and the focus is social distancing rather than the relatively small number of passengers arriving at Heathrow (many of whom are UK nationals and this entitled to enter the country).

    I would not call 10 – 15 wide bodies a day coming into Heathrow from the USA (as they have for the past 3 weeks) “a relatively small number of passengers” nor would I consider a number of daily flights from Europe the same.

    I have made it quite clear i am not a medic but you do not need to be a medic to accept factually, New York is considered an epi centre of the virus.

    By relatively, I mean relative to the number of flights normally coming in.

    Heathrow capacity has been cut by 75%, the number of flights from USA is now in single figures, mainly flights repatriation British nationals.

    Australia is a completely different case. And to be honest Canucklad what seems eminently sensible to you has been described by a qualified medical practitioner on the ground as a “disaster”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/hotel-quarantine-a-disaster-and-vulnerable-people-should-be-allowed-home-doctor-says

    Ststistics can be made to suit any circumstances such as your recent point about Ghana (that other epicentre of world travel?).

    I don’t doubt in the fullness of time there will be valid questions to be asked about many things, however anyone who comes on here saying “the UK is not taking the pandemic seriously” just risks making themself look a bit silly.

    Simon S1

    What are you troubled by in the Australian approach; the principle, or the way it is being executed? Or are you just rubbishing the whole idea?

    I’m saying it is all a matter of opinion. So what one person describes as “eminently sensible” about the Australia approach is described by someone else on the ground as a “disaster”.

    Every country has to respond to circumstances in a different way. The UK is completely different to Australia in size, amount of transit traffic, number of expatriates etc. Plus every country measures the number of cases in different ways.

    Nothing wrong with countries taking different approaches really the point I was making several posts back is that the time for review and recriminations will come later, however anyone that seriously thinks that the “UK is not taking the pandemic seriously” is probably deluded. One thing that really has been quite depressing about this pandemic is the number of people on social media who suddenly seem to have become virology experts…..


    GivingupBA
    Participant

    transtraxman wrote, “In the UK with 660 parties stopped by police in Greater Manchester, a funeral with 60 persons attending and refusing to disperse, some well-oiled individuals hiring a private plane to take them off for the weekend to the French Riviera – all show a lack of explanation/education by Boris and his team on the importance of the measures taken and the dangers of ignoring those measures…………”

    A lack of explanation/education by Boris and his team? I suggest that is not at all the reason.

    transtraxman also wrote, “…………Or is it that too many people are so egoistic, selfish, and could not give a damn about themselves or others.”

    I strongly suggest that the latter is the reason for the examples of the flouting of the rules which you gave.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
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